Mika's Personal Life

[Guest]

I realy don't ment to say that people who do talk about his sexuality don't respect him. I think we all do. I don't want to insult other Mika fans.

 

It's just that I don't get why there's so much discussion about it... Probably it's because I'm new here and I missed the whole reason for this discussion.

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

I realy don't ment to say that people who do talk about his sexuality don't respect him. I think we all do. I don't want to insult other Mika fans.

 

It's just that I don't get why there's so much discussion about it... Probably it's because I'm new here and I missed the whole reason for this discussion.

 

Yes theres a lot of history but you are right in what you say , Mika doesnt want to talk about it so months ago and from the start of the MFC we kinda decided not to ..... as weve grown we need to adapt and change .. maybe now we do chat about it .. maybe

[Scut Monkey]

Now to address some less important points that I thought shouldn't go by without comment...

 

You don't talk about it! It's doesn't matter what his sexuality is, he will never hook up with any of us anyway...

And most of all HE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT, so please respect it.

It's not a matter of whether he will hook up with anyone, it's a matter of whether purely hypothetical discussion of the topic should be banned while other equally trivial topic are not.

 

Must I say it again? His words were that people have the right to ask yet he has the right to not answer, not that other people shouldn't discuss it. He has yet to indicate neither for nor against other people discussing the topic.

 

I know I would be some what crushed if he turned out to be gay. I mean, c'mon who wouldn't? Though it wouldn't stop me from listening to his awesome music!

Who wouldn’t? Anyone who isn’t homophobic.

[Scut Monkey]

To finish off, some OT points...

 

Some of us don't feel that every disagreement is a negative thing and I think maybe that's where the Carebear talk comes from (at least generally, I don't know about you in particular, that's for Yop to say). I think that as long as people aren't calling each other names, engaging in arguments in not only acceptable but stimulating.

 

Jack and I are friends precisely because we were debating in a thread one day. We (and some other people) enjoy it and don't think that we all have to agree 100% of the time in order to avoid negativity.

Yep. There's also the factor that disagreeing does not necessarily lead to arguing. I know that Christine has different opinion on some things that I do, and I might discuss these differences with her, but due to the fact that we understand each other and where we are coming from, we rarely need to argue. So we may never "argue" but it hardly means that we have the same opinion on things.

 

--Jack

 

P.S. I just spent half this thread disagreeing with Scut, and I consider her one of my friends...

 

I completely agree (no irony intended). Difference of opinion is to be expected, so we debate in a respectful manner without resorting to the negativity of argument.

 

Some of the people that I respect the most happen to be the ones whom I debate with the most.

 

As a token of my appreciation, may I add a drop or two of this to your coffee?

 

Oh my, I'm addicted to the stuff. Caramel-flavoured especially.

[Niki27]

I realy don't ment to say that people who do talk about his sexuality don't respect him. I think we all do. I don't want to insult other Mika fans.

 

It's just that I don't get why there's so much discussion about it... Probably it's because I'm new here and I missed the whole reason for this discussion.

 

I don't feel insulted don't worry

And I totally agree with you on the fact that there are far more interesting things to discuss than his sexuality.

BUT I'm against the idea of censure in general.

I hate the threads dedicated to his bodyhair or feet or whatever, but if someone wanted to close them pretending such topics shouldn't be allowed, I would react all the same.

 

Call me the devil's advocate

[Christine]

I completely agree (no irony intended). Difference of opinion is to be expected, so we debate in a respectful manner without resorting to the negativity of argument.

 

I just wanted to clarify since I mentioned the word "argument" in my post that I was talking about logical arguments, not rowing. I don't intend to start or engage in rows with anyone on MFC whether I consider them a friend or virtual stranger.

[dcdeb]

Wow, a lot has been said since I posted last yesterday... Can't

possibly go back and address each post, even I wanted to... which

I don't at this point.

 

But some thoughts, trying to keep this from getting too unwieldy to

read:

 

Seriously, he said HE didn't wanna talk about it. His choice. My choice to talk about it if I want to.

 

A couple things about this reasoning:

 

First, yes, it IS your choice to talk about it if you want to. Offline, IRL, on

MSN, IM, ICQ, wherever else. What we've

been debating is whether we, as a forum, should condone and even

encourage talk about it HERE.

 

Secondly, just because he hasn't said explicitly, "It's OK for you all to

talk about it on the forum," doesn't mean he thinks it's OK for us

to talk about it on the forum or that he WANTS us to talk about it on this

forum. As much as I wish right now that he WOULD

post here and tell us what he thinks, we don't really expect him to

ever do that, do we? And, as you just said Niki, many wouldn't even care

if he DID say he preferred that we don't talk about it -- because they

want to talk about it SO much.

 

It's not a matter of whether he will hook up with anyone, it's a matter of whether purely hypothetical discussion of the topic should be banned while other equally trivial topic are not.

 

You know, this argument is wearing thin with me. I think it's the use

of the word "trivial." Yes, threads about his body hair are trivial.

Threads about his dimples -- trivial. Unnecessary even. But we

don't get people bickering over his dimples. Usually.

 

Clearly the topic of his sexuality *isn't* trivial -- not to him, and not

to a lot of members on this forum.

 

You can't treat every topic equally. You just can't. Say, as a moderator

I'm faced with three posts: one about Mika's nose hair, one containing

child pornography, and one describing an MFC member's illness. First one

OK -- it's silly but OK. Third one, important because of the relationships

here. Middle one? Delete it, ban the poster. All threads are not created

equal. We have to decide where in the scheme of things they all fit.

 

For the record, I don't know what the answer to this

ongoing debate is.

 

As a fan, I have no

desire or need to speculate about Mika's sexuality. He is who he is, and

all I really care about is that he continues to BE, that keeps on doing

what he's doing. My instinct as a fan, and as a human being who feels

that a person's right to privacy should be respected, tells me

that this is one topic that ought to be left alone.

 

As a moderator, I don't particularly want to have to read and

moderate threads in which people are discussing Mika's sex life and

analyzing every move he makes, every word he speaks, every item of

clothing he wears, looking for imaginary "clues" as to his sexual orientation.

As if that will enlighten ANYbody about HIS sexuality or human sexuality in

general. We've been down that road before and it normally leads to tears.

Oh, if only everyone could disagree without being disagreeable!

 

There are a dozen, maybe two dozen (I didn't count exactly)

very vocal proponents of the "Let's Talk about

Mika's Sex, Baby" camp. Based on some posts here, PMs I've gotten,

and chats I've had on MSN, there are more than twice that

many advocates of the "Let's Leave Mika's Sex Life Out of It" position.

 

That means there are hundreds, thousands, who haven't expressed

an opinion one way or the other.

 

What's a moderator to do?

 

Open it up for discussion as we have here... maybe do a poll, since,

despite what Christine said yesterday, sometimes leaders DO look for

the popular opinion with a referendum or vote on an issue.

 

And that's why we've been going round and round and round... not because

I like debate, that's for sure. I really don't.

 

But I do feel we need to do what's in the best interest of most of

the people here, and do what will keep this forum running at the high

standard it has been.

 

dcdeb

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

I would like to see a poll still ... I dont think its going to affect the MFC decision but Im curious as the the whole over all feeling

[avoca]

speculations aside, what happens?

 

shouldn't this topic be treated EXACTLY LIKE THE OTHERS, i.e. discussed with decency and respect and mods should watch over it EXACTLY LIKE THEY WATCH OVER EVERYTHING ELSE..?

 

it seems very sensible, very logic, very natural to me.

 

we don't post the truth, we don't know the truth over his sexuality, like we don't know for sure whether he may call his hypothetical son alice. we just discuss it.

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

speculations aside, what happens?

 

shouldn't this topic be treated EXACTLY LIKE THE OTHERS, i.e. discussed with decency and respect and mods should watch over it EXACTLY LIKE THEY WATCH OVER EVERYTHING ELSE..?

 

it seems very sensible, very logic, very natural to me.

 

we don't post the truth, we don't know the truth over his sexuality, like we don't know for sure whether he may call his hypothetical son alice. we just discuss it.

 

Well ... if we decide to discuss it , then I really would like it down to one thread , I would hate the top 10 threads all down to Mikas sexuality , one moderated thread sounds like a good option , I think Scut M posted that

[Niki27]

Secondly, just because he hasn't said explicitly, "It's OK for you all to

talk about it on the forum," doesn't mean he thinks it's OK for us

to talk about it on the forum or that he WANTS us to talk about it on this

forum.

 

True. But he didn't say he didn't want us to talk about it either... or do you mods know more then we do ? I personally think he doesn't give a damn about people speculating. He has far more important things on his mind.

 

As a fan, I have no

desire or need to speculate about Mika's sexuality. He is who he is, and

all I really care about is that he continues to BE, that keeps on doing

what he's doing.

 

Neither do I Deb, I don't know if you realize it or not. I was actually the first person to mention on this thread this wasn't a very intersting subject of discussion and that there was a tacit agreement not to discuss M's sexuality on this forum. But seeing how far this debate has gone, I feel like I also have the right to voice the fact that banning some topics is a dangerous road we shouldn't take.

 

As a moderator, I don't particularly want to have to read and moderate threads in which people are discussing Mika's sex life and analyzing every move he makes, every word he speaks, every item of

clothing he wears, looking for imaginary "clues" as to his sexual orientation.

 

This happens on every thread! And only this one causes a real "commotion".

 

There are a dozen, maybe two dozen (I didn't count exactly) very vocal proponents of the "Let's Talk about

Mika's Sex, Baby" camp. Based on some posts here, PMs I've gotten,

and chats I've had on MSN, there are more than twice that

many advocates of the "Let's Leave Mika's Sex Life Out of It" position.

 

Weirdly enough I had the opposite feeling... It's a metter of interpretation I guess.

 

As a conclusion, I just wanna stress the fact that I am not interested in M's sexuality... and I won't certainly take part to debates the aim of which is to determine if he's gay or not. But I really don't see why this topic should be banned. It will come back insidiously in other threads anyway.

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

Ok ..... this is my call

 

I say we open one thread , with moderation , hopefully we wont need to moderate it at all and it will self moderate ...

 

I dont want the Mods crawling all over every single comment but to let it flow

 

If we see thread after thread we will start commenting and closing ...

 

Comments?

[Niki27]

Ok ..... this is my call

 

I say we open one thread , with moderation , hopefully we wont need to and it will self moderate ...

 

If we see thread after thread we will start commenting and closing ...

 

Comments?

 

I totally agree on this. I don't want 10 threads about M's sexual orientation. I don't even want one to be honnest. But this topic interests people (be it a majority or not) and should therefore be allowed IMO.

 

99% of the MFCers are sensible persons who indeed self-moderate themselves and I'm sure this thread won't get out of "control".

 

So yes, I'm fully with you on this one Fred.

[Scut Monkey]

You know, this argument is wearing thin with me. I think it's the use

of the word "trivial." Yes, threads about his body hair are trivial.

Threads about his dimples -- trivial. Unnecessary even. But we

don't get people bickering over his dimples. Usually.

 

Clearly the topic of his sexuality *isn't* trivial -- not to him, and not

to a lot of members on this forum.

 

You can't treat every topic equally. You just can't. Say, as a moderator

I'm faced with three posts: one about Mika's nose hair, one containing

child pornography, and one describing an MFC member's illness. First one

OK -- it's silly but OK. Third one, important because of the relationships

here. Middle one? Delete it, ban the poster. All threads are not created

equal. We have to decide where in the scheme of things they all fit.

Excuse me, Mika does not think that sexuality is not trivial topic, in fact and has said that it is a trivial topic several times.

 

You're right, not all threads are equal, child pornography for example is far more serious than people people analysing at Mika's hand gestures. But the topic of Mika's sexuality should be far less of a big deal than many people here are making it. Really, I do not see why there is such a fuss about this topic. I think that the priorities are out of order here.

 

If there was bickering in this topic in the past it says more about the posters than the topic. This thread, where no bickering hash occured clearly shows that it's not the topic itself that's the problem.

 

just because he hasn't said explicitly, "It's OK for you all to

talk about it on the forum," doesn't mean he thinks it's OK for us

to talk about it on the forum or that he WANTS us to talk about it on this

forum. As much as I wish right now that he WOULD

post here and tell us what he thinks, we don't really expect him to

ever do that, do we?

He has made no indication for or against people discussing this topic so until he does this argument is irrelevant to the debate as otherwise both sides would only be making assumptions.

 

As a moderator, I don't particularly want to have to read and

moderate threads in which people are discussing Mika's sex life and

analyzing every move he makes, every word he speaks, every item of

clothing he wears, looking for imaginary "clues" as to his sexual orientation.

As if that will enlighten ANYbody about HIS sexuality or human sexuality in

general.

I'm sorry but the concern here is not what you want to read or not read. If a person doesn't want to read a topic they don't need to. As a moderator your job is to make sure that nothing gets out of hand anywhere and if that means you have to read things that you feel are meaningless then too bad because that's part of the job that you volunteered for. I'm not trying to sound harsh in anyway, merely highlighting the fact that your point is irrelevant to anyone but you.

 

But I do feel we need to do what's in the best interest of most of

the people here

So we should please the majority even if it means that it's possibly not right?

 

Well ... if we decide to discuss it , then I really would like it down to one thread , I would hate the top 10 threads all down to Mikas sexuality , one moderated thread sounds like a good option , I think Scut M posted that

If all threads are moderated anyway (are they?) then it's won't be that much different from any other thread. I hope that is what will be the case.

[dcdeb]

I personally think he doesn't give a damn about people speculating. He has far more important things on his mind.

 

I don't know about the first sentence, but I totally agree with you

on the second!

 

Neither do I Deb, I don't know if you realize it or not. I was actually the first person to mention on this thread this wasn't a very intersting subject of discussion and that there was a tacit agreement not to discuss M's sexuality on this forum. But seeing how far this debate has gone, I feel like I also have the right to voice the fact that banning some topics is a dangerous road we shouldn't take.

 

I do remember, Niki. That's why I'm interested to see your shift in

position. But as far as "banned" topics go -- firstly, this topic has

not been "banned," IMO. As I've tried to point out before, it's

come up occasionally and HAS been discussed -- and I'm not talking

about threads that were two posts long, I'm talking about threads

that were a couple hundred posts long. Has no one else seen those

threads? Did I dream them? Secondly,

there are some topics that ARE banned already. So we're already on

the way to hell in a handbasket, I guess

 

The question is whether we

really need/want an ongoing thread dedicated to the topic, and whether

the overall philosophy here is going to be,

"Yeah, let's all have a good chinwag for the next year or so

about what Mika gets up to in the bedroom," or "Let's not stick our

collective noses into that aspect of Mika's life."

 

dcdeb

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

Excuse me, Mika does not think that sexuality is not trivial topic, in fact and has said that it is a trivial topic several times.

 

You're right, not all threads are equal, child pornography for example is far more serious than people people analysing at Mika's hand gestures. But the topic of Mika's sexuality should be far less of a big deal than many people here are making it. Really, I do not see why there is such a fuss about this topic. I think that the priorities are out of order here.

 

If there was bickering in this topic in the past it says more about the posters than the topic. This thread, where no bickering hash occured clearly shows that it's not the topic itself that's the problem.

 

 

He has made no indication for or against people discussing this topic so until he does this argument is irrelevant to the debate as otherwise both sides would only be making assumptions.

 

 

I'm sorry but the concern here is not what you want to read or not read. If a person doesn't want to read a topic they don't need to. As a moderator your job is to make sure that nothing gets out of hand anywhere and if that means you have to read things that you feel are meaningless then too bad because that's part of the job that you volunteered for. I'm not trying to sound harsh in anyway, merely highlighting the fact that your point is irrelevant to anyone but you.

 

 

So we should please the majority even if it means that it's possibly not right?

 

 

If all threads are moderated anyway (are they?) then it's won't be that much different from any other thread. I hope that is what will be the case.

 

Didnt I post I would want it to be self moderated ...

 

<do you read my posts>

[Scut Monkey]

I totally agree on this. I don't want 10 threads about M's sexual orientation.

If we see thread after thread we will start commenting and closing ...

I never want to see 10 threads on ANY topic.

 

If someone opens a new thread on the same topic, direct/link the person to the other thread and close the new thread.

 

Isn't that standard protocol here anyway regardless of the topic?

 

Didnt I post I would want it to be self moderated ...

 

<do you read my posts>

Freddie, you need to realise that it takes a long time to write my mammoth posts. By the time that I had finished writing it you had already answered my question.

[dcdeb]

 

I say we open one thread , with moderation , hopefully we wont need to moderate it at all and it will self moderate ...

 

I dont want the Mods crawling all over every single comment but to let it flow

 

If we see thread after thread we will start commenting and closing ...

 

Comments?

 

The Great and Mighty Oz has spoken!

 

If all threads are moderated anyway (are they?) then it's won't be that much different from any other thread. I hope that is what will be the case.

 

Me too.

 

dcdeb

[dcdeb]

Freddie, you need to realise that it takes a long time to write my mammoth posts. By the time that I had finished writing it you had already answered my question.

 

Exactly my problem as well... I shouldn't be so long-winded!

 

 

dcdeb

[Niki27]

I do remember, Niki. That's why I'm interested to see your shift in

position.

 

I wouldnt call it a shift of position. My first post meant "oh do we really need to discuss this again? Please guys, can't we talk of something else?" And that's still how I feel.

 

I only started to get bitchy when it was suggested to close the thread. I've always liked to play the devil's advocate, as I said earlier, and it's exactly what I've been doing for the last few days

 

But as far as "banned" topics go -- firstly, this topic has

not been "banned," IMO. As I've tried to point out before, it's

come up occasionally and HAS been discussed -- and I'm not talking

about threads that were two posts long, I'm talking about threads

that were a couple hundred posts long. Has no one else seen those

threads? Did I dream them?

 

Lol... well I honesty didn't see them... it must show how much interest I usually have for discussions of this kind. And it proves that when you don't want to read about something, it's very easy to ignore that something.

 

The question is whether we

really need/want an ongoing thread dedicated to the topic, and whether

the overall philosophy here is going to be,

"Yeah, let's all have a good chinwag for the next year or so

about what Mika gets up to in the bedroom," or "Let's not stick our

collective noses into that aspect of Mika's life."

 

Don't agree. IMO the question is:

- Should we have a delimited place where people can collectively stick their nose into that aspect of MIKA's life but under control of down-to-earth people.

OR

- Should we pretend noone cares and the question will never be mentionned again and open the door to individual speculations dissiminated on the whole forum.

 

As Freddie said, I think ONE thread dedicated to this issue will be the solution. Newbies will have a place to ask their questions, and you mods and other MFCers will keep an eye on the discussion to make sure it doesn't go to far.

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

Ok the thread can be posted for me ....

 

I must say Im totally not happy with it for a number of reaasons , BUT Ive read many comments from intelligent MFCers and I appreciate the situation.

 

Any more than one thread , even if it means a newbie posting to ask "is mika gay" will be closed and we will redirected to this thread.

[Gatagordinha]

As Freddie said, I think ONE thread dedicated to this issue will be the solution. Newbies will have a place to ask their questions, and you mods and other MFCers will keep an eye on the discussion to make sure it doesn't go to far.

 

So...when are the Mods going to make an executive decision on whether we go ahead with this idea?

 

It seems to me that everyone could go on discussing this for ever on this thread, and just keep going round in circles...

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

So...when are the Mods going to make an executive decision on whether we go ahead with this idea?

 

It seems to me that everyone could go on discussing this for ever on this thread, and just keep going round in circles...

 

Read above

[Scut Monkey]

I see that we've finally made some progress. But perhaps we should wait to see what everyone else who isn't online at the moment thinks of this approach? Or at least not post a new thread until lollipop_monkey returns to do so since it was her idea and she made some productive suggestions for what the new thread should include? Regardless, we'll need to discuss a draft before anything is posted anyway?

 

Any more than one thread , even if it means a newbie posting to ask "is mika gay" will be closed and we will redirected to this thread.

Again I ask, isn't that already standard procedure regardless of the topic?

[sparkly1]

Oh good, so now the newbies don't need to be put up against a wall and SHOT for asking the all elusive question, and so many do...

 

(newbie newest new Mika is all mine and not yours) says....."hi I'm new, so tell me ...is Mika gay"

 

 

Now they can go on the first page and see the score so far, IF in fact they can control the urge to just BLURT it out in their 1st post before reading anything at all

 

(am I really interested? yeah I am but I won't die if we can't discuss it or if I never find out, i am sure I will still live, and still think Mika is wonderful and very talented...oh yeah...and sooooo pretty).