Mika's Personal Life

[Niki27]

Jack,

 

As you said there will always be new members who ask about M's sexuality, and who don't know what Mika's wishes are... when I said "we" I included these people. I'd rather have them asking on one thread than everywhere on the forum. That's what I meant.

 

Of course noone should disclose any private information they might have about M. It has always been my opinion. But when I attacked a certain person last summer for showing screencaps of a private myspace, I don't remember anyone backing me up

[Kelzy]

*drinks water...dies*

 

False advertising.

 

I drank bottled water

*dies slowly, unaware, but refreshed*

[Scut Monkey]

I like lollipop_monkey's draft. At the current moment I have nothing to add to it but maybe later when I've mulled over some more I may or may not have anything to add. I also agree with Jack's modification.

 

With regards to "private info", I think that if something isn't in the public domain then it shouldn't be posted. But I would suggest that for anywhere in the forum anyway.

 

Jack, just for the record, if I saw someone say something heterophobic I'd call them out too; I don't think that a person should speak negatively of any sexuality, full stop. You're right, the homophobia card can be unfairly played just like the "we don't care" card but if someone sees something that they think is homophobic then there's nothing wrong with pointing it out especially since the poster may not have even realised that their view is indirectly homophobic. We can learn from each other as long as we're not bitter or insulting.

[Fmbm]

Where is this "rough draft" people keep talking about? haha

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

Jack,

 

As you said there will always be new members who ask about M's sexuality, and who don't know what Mika's wishes are... when I said "we" I included these people. I'd rather have them asking on one thread than everywhere on the forum. That's what I meant.

 

Of course noone should disclose any private information they might have about M. It has always been my opinion. But when I attacked a certain person last summer for showing screencaps of a private myspace, I don't remember anyone backing me up

 

Agree to this , as Ive said before all other threads will be closed , nicely

[Gatagordinha]

I also think that if we are going to have discussion on this topic, we should be careful with accusations of homophobia. Some of us feel like the "we don't care!" bit often gets used like an attack to shut down statement of possibilities that people may not want to hear. But I think sometimes we use the whole "it's homophobic!" thing in the same way.

 

I do not understand why anyone would think that the I Don't Care stance is homophobic In fact I'm quite horrified that anyone might have seen it in that way. So yes, I agree that the accusations of homophobia really have to stop. Unless an obvious and explicit homophobic comment is made, of course.

 

It might also be good to add that IF anyone comes across any private information on the subject, we should in fact respect Mika's privacy and not disclose it. Unless... people disagree? What should our policy be on "Actually, I went to school with Mika and he was dating so-and-so at the time"? I mean, I would be against disclosing such stuff, but others may not be.

 

--Jack

 

I feel very strongly indeed that NO 'inside information' should be shared, at all. Discussion and speculation is one thing, but disclosing information such as who Mika has dated, etc., would IMO be a direct betrayal of Mika's silence on the subject. I would be horrified if this happened.

 

I think lollipop monkey's draft is fine, and agree with your slight modification Jack.

 

Where is this "rough draft" people keep talking about? haha

 

Page 91 of this thread

[JackViolet]

 

Jack, just for the record, if I saw someone say something heterophobic I'd call them out too; I don't think that a person should speak negatively of any sexuality, full stop. You're right, the homophobia card can be unfairly played just like the "we don't care" card but if someone sees something that they think is homophobic then there's nothing wrong with pointing it out especially since the poster may not have even realised that their view is indirectly homophobic. We can learn from each other as long as we're not bitter or insulting.

 

NO WE MUST NOT CALL PEOPLE ON BIGOTRY EVAR. Haha.

 

I just really didn't see anything homophobic in that girl saying she'd be sad if Mika were gay because that would take him off the market for her.

 

Gatagordinha: it sometimes seems like people use "We Don't care!" to shut down mention of Mika's sexuality (and possible homosexuality). Like, someone will come on and ask, "so is there anything to the rumours of Mika being gay?" or "My classmates said Mika's gay, is that true?" and immediately be descended upon with, "We don't talk about that here, we don't care!!!!, never mention it again!" etc. It's this reaction--as though simply asking if he's gay, or bringing up the possibility that he may be--is something horrible never to be spoken off--that causes one to think of homophobia.

 

--Jack

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

I do not understand why anyone would think that the I Don't Care stance is homophobic In fact I'm quite horrified that anyone might have seen it in that way. So yes, I agree that the accusations of homophobia really have to stop. Unless an obvious and explicit homophobic comment is made, of course.

 

 

 

I feel very strongly indeed that NO 'inside information' should be shared, at all. Discussion and speculation is one thing, but disclosing information such as who Mika has dated, etc., would IMO be a direct betrayal of Mika's silence on the subject. I would be horrified if this happened.

 

I think lollipop monkey's draft is fine, and agree with your slight modification Jack.

 

 

 

Page 91 of this thread

 

Totally agree , homophobia doesnt even come into it .it just means we really dont care , or even consider it when it comes to mika

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

I Don't Care.

 

:naughty:

 

dcdeb

 

Another member

[Gatagordinha]

Gatagordinha: it sometimes seems like people use "We Don't care!" to shut down mention of Mika's sexuality (and possible homosexuality). Like, someone will come on and ask, "so is there anything to the rumours of Mika being gay?" or "My classmates said Mika's gay, is that true?" and immediately be descended upon with, "We don't talk about that here, we don't care!!!!, never mention it again!" etc. It's this reaction--as though simply asking if he's gay, or bringing up the possibility that he may be--is something horrible never to be spoken off--that causes one to think of homophobia.

 

--Jack

 

Yes, I understand the explanation of that, I just don't get the connection between saying I Don't Want to Discuss It and being homophobic....

 

Totally agree , homophobia doesnt even come into it .it just means we really dont care , or even consider it when it comes to mika

 

Exactly!

 

btw I've said I Don't Care many times, and I think the whole thing has been misinterpreted by some people. There may be different levels of Not Caring.

 

I can't speak for everyone but personally when I say I don't care about Mika's sexuality, it simply means that I support him in his decision to be private about it and his right to not state it, and that it is irrelevant to his worth as a musician, in my eyes. It does NOT mean that I do not wonder about it or that I am not naturally curious or have no interest in it or opinion on it. I personally do not think that this stance is hypocritical or disingenuous, as some in the past have tried to suggest.

 

That said, I will certainly not be spending hours dissecting the whole thing on this thread, although I may give my opinion at some point!

[nico_collard]

Another mammoth post...

 

...but before I start, may I ask how will this affect discussion of SITM? Will it also be allowed within a dedicated thread (and include a disclaimer stating that all discussion is hypothetical and there is no real evidence for anything, especially if pertaining to his sexuality)?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I 100% agree with all of you. Kata especially nailed the point home in her post.

 

I want to see this topic treated like any other trivial topic on this forum.

 

 

This is a VERY valid point. That's what I meant by my statement that it should be about doing what is right and fair not only what pleases the majority.

 

 

A VERY good point that you’re right to say can’t be empasised enough. Just like anything else in the forum, if it doesn’t interest you then just don’t read/post.

 

 

I agree, we need written rules (preferably with reasoned explanations).

 

 

 

 

 

I support this idea. It allows free discussion without taking over the board which is a fair compromise in my opinion. And if someone "doesn't care" then they can avoid the thread just like they would ignore any other thread that doesn't interest them.

 

 

I think that should also need to be included in the first post, that the discussion is purely hypothetical and opinion-based. Whether analysis of publicly available matter is debatable (I think it's fine, Jack disagrees), one thing for sure is that if anyone finds evidence that is not publicly available then they shouldn't post it.

 

 

New members join all of the time (and I suspect that some current members are more interested in the topic than they’re willing to admit) so I don’t think that it’ll ever die down. But I don’t think it’ll take over the board either. But I suspect that it will affect other threads and how willing/reluctant that people are to refer to Mika’s possible sexuality.

 

 

Yes, we need to reach some sort of decision soon. But we don't want to rush it either since it's setting a precedent for a while to come at least…

 

Surprisingly enough... and for the first time in this thread... I totally agree with you Scut!

 

Ok ..... this is my call

 

I say we open one thread , with moderation , hopefully we wont need to moderate it at all and it will self moderate ...

 

I dont want the Mods crawling all over every single comment but to let it flow

 

If we see thread after thread we will start commenting and closing ...

 

Comments?

 

That would be good... I'm sure people can be mature enough to self moderate... even though I'll be hanging around... but can I just say...

 

IF SOMEONE SAYS ANYTHING THAT IS INAPPROPRIATE OR STARTS ARGUMENTS CAN PEOPLE PLEASE TELL US VIA PM???

 

It is really irritating when people don't tell us someting that is going on and people start arguments about it ad blameus... cause contrary to popular belief, we can't read everyting that gos on in here...

 

And I'm sorry for yelling, but I think it needs to be said...

 

Speaking of which... Deb and I shared a double bed in Glasgow... :roftl:

 

I slept with half the Aussies on the verandah...

[nico_collard]

Yes, I understand the explanation of that, I just don't get the connection between saying I Don't Want to Discuss It and being homophobic....

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

btw I've said I Don't Care many times, and I think the whole thing has been misinterpreted by some people. There may be different levels of Not Caring.

 

I can't speak for everyone but personally when I say I don't care about Mika's sexuality, it simply means that I support him in his decision to be private about it and his right to not state it, and that it is irrelevant to his worth as a musician, in my eyes. It does NOT mean that I do not wonder about it or that I am not naturally curious or have no interest in it or opinion on it. I personally do not think that this stance is hypocritical or disingenuous, as some in the past have tried to suggest.

 

That said, I will certainly not be spending hours dissecting the whole thing on this thread, although I may give my opinion at some point!

 

That is me.. basically...

[Scut Monkey]

NO WE MUST NOT CALL PEOPLE ON BIGOTRY EVAR. Haha.

 

I just really didn't see anything homophobic in that girl saying she'd be sad if Mika were gay because that would take him off the market for her.

ZOMG, when you use the term "EVAR", Jack, I know that you must be really serious.

 

I wasn't calling her on the fact that she would be disappointed if Mika were gay because it would shatter her fantasy, plenty of people have expressed that opinion in this thread before. What I didn't like was her question 'come on, who wouldn't be crushed if Mika turned out to be gay?' (or something along those lines). To me that suggests either a negative view of homosexuality, or the assumption that everyone shares her straight perspective; neither of those possibilities pleases me.

 

Yes, I understand the explanation of that, I just don't get the connection between saying I Don't Want to Discuss It and being homophobic....

While for some people "we don't care" has nothing to do with homophobia, it may be a cover for others to avoid considering the "unsavoury" possibility of Mika being gay by choosing to not consider the topic at all.

[Kelzy]

Yes, I understand the explanation of that, I just don't get the connection between saying I Don't Want to Discuss It and being homophobic....

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

btw I've said I Don't Care many times, and I think the whole thing has been misinterpreted by some people. There may be different levels of Not Caring.

 

I can't speak for everyone but personally when I say I don't care about Mika's sexuality, it simply means that I support him in his decision to be private about it and his right to not state it, and that it is irrelevant to his worth as a musician, in my eyes. It does NOT mean that I do not wonder about it or that I am not naturally curious or have no interest in it or opinion on it. I personally do not think that this stance is hypocritical or disingenuous, as some in the past have tried to suggest.

 

That said, I will certainly not be spending hours dissecting the whole thing on this thread, although I may give my opinion at some point!

That is me too

Let me put things this way:

If he is straight: yippee I stand a chance, but the queue is 8,000+ MFCers long (and counting)

If he is gay: I Don't stand a chance but approx 5 MFCers do (that I can think of)

If he is bisexual: Yay, we all stand a chance *cringes for Mika*

If he is Asexual: Woohoo, No one stands a chance!!! (except Renee Zellweger )

(I hope no one takes that seriously)

[Gatagordinha]

That is me too

Let me put things this way:

If he is straight: yippee I stand a chance, but the queue is 8,000+ MFCers long (and counting)

If he is gay: I Don't stand a chance but approx 5 MFCers do (that I can think of)

If he is bisexual: Yay, we all stand a chance *cringes for Mika*

If he is Asexual: Woohoo, No one stands a chance!!! (except Renee Zellweger )

(I hope no one takes that seriously)

 

:roftl:

 

I hope he is asexual. If I can't have him then no-one can:mf_rosetinted: :mf_rosetinted:

 

But I don't care, obviously.

[nico_collard]

That is me too

Let me put things this way:

If he is straight: yippee I stand a chance, but the queue is 8,000+ MFCers long (and counting)

If he is gay: I Don't stand a chance but approx 5 MFCers do (that I can think of)

If he is bisexual: Yay, we all stand a chance *cringes for Mika*

If he is Asexual: Woohoo, No one stands a chance!!! (except Renee Zellweger )

(I hope no one takes that seriously)

 

 

 

 

Sounds pretty fair to me Kelz...

[Scut Monkey]

I hope he is asexual. If I can't have him then no-one can

I was waiting for someone to say that.

[nico_collard]

:roftl:

 

I hope he is asexual. If I can't have him then no-one can:mf_rosetinted: :mf_rosetinted:

 

But I don't care, obviously.

 

Of course not...

[JackViolet]

 

I wasn't calling her on the fact that she would be disappointed if Mika were gay because it would shatter her fantasy, plenty of people have expressed that opinion in this thread before. What I didn't like was her question 'come on, who wouldn't be crushed if Mika turned out to be gay?' (or something along those lines). To me that suggests either a negative view of homosexuality, or the assumption that everyone shares her straight perspective; neither of those possibilities pleases me.

 

Ah, yes. I'm pretty sure it was the second--ie, she just didn't think about anyone other than straight girls when she said "Who wouldn't be?" Which is heteronormative but not exactly homophobic.

 

Totally OT: In class the other day, I brought up seeing these two very obviously gay guys on the subway who reminded me of the protagonists of the book we were discussing. The professor, trying to somehow make my random contribution relevant to the discussion, said something like, "oh yes, and now how does the gaze of the straight woman on the gay man function here?" Or maybe she said "ostensibly straight woman." In either case, I was kind of irritated. I don't discuss my sexuality or dating life with my professors any more than Mika does, but why the automatic assumption that I was straight?

 

I'm still a bit irritated because I couldn't really come up with a good way to call the professor on her assumption, either. Since I really do think my private life is none of my profs' business and not something I want to talk about, I couldn't even say "But what makes you think I am straight?" because that would either be saying "I'm not straight," or would be followed up by a question of "oh, aren't you?" And I don't want to say either way, sigh.

 

 

--Jack

[Scut Monkey]

Ah, yes. I'm pretty sure it was the second--ie, she just didn't think about anyone other than straight girls when she said "Who wouldn't be?" Which is heteronormative but not exactly homophobic.

Good point, if that question was referring to 'crushed dreams' that would indeed be heteronormative, but it's possible that the question was general and not referring specifically to that in which case it could possibly hint at homophobia. But until the poster lets me know what her intention was I won't labour the point, I don't know how innocent or not their statement was.

 

I'm still a bit irritated because I couldn't really come up with a good way to call the professor on her assumption, either. Since I really do think my private life is none of my profs' business and not something I want to talk about, I couldn't even say "But what makes you think I am straight?" because that would either be saying "I'm not straight," or would be followed up by a question of "oh, aren't you?" And I don't want to say either way, sigh.

I get that quite often. It's a lose-lose situation. So I often end up saying nothing at all.

[Kelzy]

I would quote my post from above but i can't be bothered.. but I think I have touched on a very important point.. (not sure if it's been said already)

Straight, Gay, Bisexual or Asexual.. there are 4 choices here that Mika could be.. which is exactly why this topic won't die an easy death.. There's too much to speculate about..

[Suzy]

Hi Scut! Hi JacK! *waves and blows kisses*

Can I offer my perspective on your last concern about people automatically seeing every situation as though everyone is "straight" until proven otherwise (this is coming from a very sincere person who has only recently opened her horizons on different perspectives but has never been homophobic)?

Ignorance? Maybe..but perhaps I would probably consider that the opportunity (ies) to discover and learn the views of those like yourselves might have never presented itself.

I am, admittedly, one of them (until very recently). Which is why I am glad that some of these sexuality threads exist - as I have learned a lot. Do I make sense?

[Kelzy]

Hey Suzy!

 

You know you are right about ignorance,, but it has alot to do with the sexual movement the world has experienced over the last 40+ years.. Most parents still raise their children to be straight, marry and breed.. We are raised on Straight assumption.. it's why it is so hard for people to come out when they realise they aren't straight. They've felt as if they were feeling something they shouldn't for a long time.. etc..

anyway.. i won't go right into all that.. but yes.. ignorance does play a part of it.. but I wouldn't say in all cases it's intentional ignorance.. it's environmental ignorance.. which hopefully, through discussions such as this, more people will become multi-sexuality accepting (for lack of better words off top of head)

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

I would quote my post from above but i can't be bothered.. but I think I have touched on a very important point.. (not sure if it's been said already)

Straight, Gay, Bisexual or Asexual.. there are 4 choices here that Mika could be.. which is exactly why this topic won't die an easy death.. There's too much to speculate about..

 

yeah .... true true

[JackViolet]

Hi Scut! Hi JacK! *waves and blows kisses*

Can I offer my perspective on your last concern about people automatically seeing every situation as though everyone is "straight" until proven otherwise (this is coming from a very sincere person who has only recently opened her horizons on different perspectives but has never been homophobic)?

Ignorance? Maybe..but perhaps I would probably consider that the opportunity (ies) to discover and learn the views of those like yourselves might have never presented itself.

I am, admittedly, one of them (until very recently). Which is why I am glad that some of these sexuality threads exist - as I have learned a lot. Do I make sense?

 

Trust me, sweetie, I would not get as irritated by this in another context. I know that most people I meet in random situations take anyone who is not expressly queer, to be straight, and I expect that. But this was a lit professor, and this was a class where we discussing queer issues. I expect all my professors to be at least somewhat aware of queer concerns and viewpoints, (it's in the handbook... no, really) and all my lit professors to be at least cursorily familiar with queer theory.

 

There are some other students in the class that I am sure the prof would have read as "gay," due to their expressed interests, etc. I was just bothered that the assumption was, if you are not somewhat visibly "gay" and do not make your orientation obvious, you are straight.

 

--Jack