Let's talk POLITICS ( NO FIGHTS)

[BonjourMika1990]

Wow. Just read through all 35 pages of this thread that was ostensibly about politics but which became an abortion thread... would have finished sooner, but MIKA was on the MTV Europe Awards which was FINALLY shown on US tv!

 

Anyhoo...

 

So much to comment on. Not sure how much I should say, but I do feel

compelled to say something... hope that doesn't make me a bad mod...

 

But first let me say this -- that despite the potential for controversy, you've all handled yourselves quite well, even if the

climate has been tense... it hasn't gotten TOO nasty...

 

I'm glad for that and am happy to see it! Thanks!

 

Now, my thoughts on just a few things that were said...

 

 

 

Sarie is anything but UNbiased. She has a definite point of view.

That's called a bias. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but don't

praise her for being unbiased, because she's not.

 

And don't get your knickers in a twist -- I'm biased, too. I

think if you have an opinion you're biased -- that's how it works.

 

 

 

It should come as no surprise to anyone that since bab and I are the same

age (yes, really!) we see things similarly. Thanks, bab.

 

And for the record, I'm as American as they come, and she is not.

I have no idea what religious affiliation she has, if any, but I am

born and raised Roman Catholic. And I'm a Democrat, FWIW.

 

 

 

I can only echo what bab said. Yep, I agree.

 

 

 

 

Do you really believe that? Really? How old are you? That sounds like

such a punishment. You broke the rules and therefore you (and your

bastard child) must pay the price. Bleah.

 

In the world I live in there are 12-year-olds who have

sex. I'm not saying that's right -- I don't think it is.

But it happens. And you can't convince me that there is a 12-year-old alive who

is ready to raise a child. No way.

 

I was 22 when I got married, and there is NO WAY I was ready for a child.

I didn't have my son until I was 32. If I had had a child sooner, I would

have dealt with it, but READY for it? ESPECIALLY if I saw it as punishment

for having sex? Sheesh.

 

Having had a child, and felt it grow inside me, I don't think I could

have an abortion PERSONALLY... but I do think that it's something

that every woman should have the right to choose for herself. If she

can live with the choice -- because of her own beliefs -- then she should

have the option to make that choice legally, without fear of legal or

moral recriminations.

 

 

 

Couldn't agree with this more. So the pope might have an issue

with me. But honestly. Where is the problem? My best friend and

her partner have to keep their bank accounts separate and live

in fear that something might happen to one or the other of them,

and the other won't be able to do anything about it. In fact, I would

have just as much right to take care of legal matters for my friend

because she's given me all of her documents, etc., as her partner of

9 years would have. Does that seem fair? They are in a loving,

committed relationship that isn't in any danger of falling apart, and

yet they can't get the same benefits from being together as my

husband and I can.

 

 

 

I've never found that to be true, so I am really surprised at some

of the comments here.

 

 

 

I'm not outside my son's high school with a banner promoting it, but

I don't think it's the worst thing that could ever happen to anyone.

 

 

 

What?!

 

Do you know where some of the terrorists that were on the 9/11 planes

lived? Behind the grocery store where I shop, about two miles from my

house. That's not Iraq. No, there are lots of reasons, but I'm sure

we didn't attack Iraq because the terrorists

were hiding out there. LOL!

 

 

 

That's it. Because it's FAITH. You don't have to question. My husband, who

is much more devout than I am, go around and around about this often.

 

Just because you read it on a website, doesn't make it so. Just because you

read it in a newspaper doesn't make it so. Just because your teacher,

your priest, even your mother says something doesn't make it so. You

need to look around you, see what's going on, hear what others have to

say...

 

In any case... having said all this... I think this has been interesting and all,

but if you want it to be a truly "political" discussion you need to get back

to the point. Talk about economics, talk about issues like social security

and health insurance and medicare, etc. Abortion is definitely an election

year issue, but there are so many other things relating to politics...

 

Good luck!

 

dcdeb

 

*breathes* YES! I wasn't quoted:mf_lustslow: I'm happy with the way you presented your opinions deb...very classy indeed:thumb_yello:

[Guest]

Sarie is anything but UNbiased.

 

dcdeb

 

Lolllllllllllll.

[lollipop_monkey]

I was 22 when I got married, and there is NO WAY I was ready for a child.I didn't have my son until I was 32. If I had had a child sooner, I would have dealt with it, but READY for it?

 

Off topic, but if you could do it all over again, would you have waited the ten years between getting married and having your son? Did you and your husband spend the time building your marriage and careers, seeing foreign lands, all the things you're "supposed" to do before having kids?

 

I'm getting married in August, but I still can't quite wrap my head around how a couple looks at all aspects of their lives and says "yep -okay, let's do it; lets become parents". At least, how they do it without waking up in a cold sweat worrying about finances and careers and emotional readiness and all the other issues that go hand-in-hand with being a parent.

[dcdeb]

Off topic, but if you could do it all over again, would you have waited the ten years between getting married and having your son? Did you and your husband spend the time building your marriage and careers, seeing foreign lands, all the things you're "supposed" to do before having kids?

 

I'm getting married in August, but I still can't quite wrap my head around how a couple looks at all aspects of their lives and says "yep -okay, let's do it; lets become parents". At least, how they do it without waking up in a cold sweat worrying about finances and careers and emotional readiness and all the other issues that go hand-in-hand with being a parent.

 

OK, off-topic...

 

Yes, I would do it the same way all over again. When I got married

I wasn't even sure that I wanted to have kids. My husband knew this

and he accepted that. He wanted kids, but even more he wanted what

I wanted... so I never felt any pressure from him.

 

We did spend the time seeing foreign lands -- we traveled a lot --

and also built our relationship and careers. And then he got cancer,

which was a bit of a shock at 26, but well, as the commercials

says, life comes at you fast.

 

Luckily, that had a good outcome.

 

But by the time I hit 30 I was starting to look around me and think,

hey, this life is wonderful, but maybe there's something else. And I

woke up in a cold sweat more than once while thinking about it,

believe me. But...

in the end, I knew it was time and I knew it was the right decision

for me. And I'm lucky that my husband was OK with whatever and

whenever. Now, you'll laugh when I tell you that I know the exact

moment our son was conceived, and that I secretly cried a little

when I "knew." Just because I knew it was the end of life as I had

known it up until that point, and it had been a good life that deserved

a little mourning at its passing. But also you'll laugh when I tell you

that I have never regretted my choice for a moment and am so

happy with my life as it is now. Sounds corny, but it's true.

 

IMO, and I emphasize again IMO, and I guess I should add IME (in my

Experience), it's all about listening to your inner self -- knowing yourself.

 

It's all terrifyingly scary, but when you come right down to it,

so is most of life!

 

But that's also what makes it so worth living!

 

Wow, is all of THAT off-topic! Sorry, but you did ask...

 

dcdeb

[BonjourMika1990]

OK, off-topic...

 

Yes, I would do it the same way all over again. When I got married

I wasn't even sure that I wanted to have kids. My husband knew this

and he accepted that. He wanted kids, but even more he wanted what

I wanted... so I never felt any pressure from him.

 

We did spend the time seeing foreign lands -- we traveled a lot --

and also built our relationship and careers. And then he got cancer,

which was a bit of a shock at 26, but well, as the commercials

says, life comes at you fast.

 

Luckily, that had a good outcome.

 

But by the time I hit 30 I was starting to look around me and think,

hey, this life is wonderful, but maybe there's something else. And I

woke up in a cold sweat more than once while thinking about it,

believe me. But...

in the end, I knew it was time and I knew it was the right decision

for me. And I'm lucky that my husband was OK with whatever and

whenever. Now, you'll laugh when I tell you that I know the exact

moment our son was conceived, and that I secretly cried a little

when I "knew." Just because I knew it was the end of life as I had

known it up until that point, and it had been a good life that deserved

a little mourning at its passing. But also you'll laugh when I tell you

that I have never regretted my choice for a moment and am so

happy with my life as it is now. Sounds corny, but it's true.

 

IMO, and I emphasize again IMO, and I guess I should add IME (in my

Experience), it's all about listening to your inner self -- knowing yourself.

 

It's all terrifyingly scary, but when you come right down to it,

so is most of life!

 

But that's also what makes it so worth living!

 

Wow, is all of THAT off-topic! Sorry, but you did ask...

 

dcdeb

 

 

That part about "crying.." was so poetic deb:mf_lustslow:

I love what you said...

when I get married (and I know it's easy for me to say now when I'm so young...) I want it just to be for me and him, no one else...I wanna travel and develop a career... I mean kids are great, but they must come at the right time...

 

*couch* politically speaking, it must be rough on the kids of politicians:biggrin2:

[Guest]

Now, you'll laugh when I tell you that I know the exact

moment our son was conceived, and that I secretly cried a little

when I "knew."

 

dcdeb

 

Want to know the honest truth? My mom says the same thing.

 

She says she didn't know when she got pregnant with my sister (there wasn't that "moment") but when she got pregnant with me, that IMMEDIATELY during sex, she just had a moment of like "Wow... that's it, I know I'm pregnant. "

 

She said it was some kind of mothery thing. She just knew when I had been conceived at that very second. I like to think it's some kind of maternal, psychological thing.

[dcdeb]

*breathes* YES! I wasn't quoted:mf_lustslow: I'm happy with the way you presented your opinions deb...very classy indeed:thumb_yello:

 

LOL! Thanks -- I try. I try not to be judgemental, but I guess sometimes

I am... but I do always try to be classy!

 

Lolllllllllllll.

 

Hey, am I wrong? I'm a liberal democrat -- that's my bias. I'm as

bleeding heart as they come... well, maybe Moby is a little moreso

than me, but I'm close... I can't help that.

 

And FTR just

because you (not you, Sarie specifically, but you, people in general)

have a different POV from me doesn't mean I don't

think you have an intelligent take on things...

 

There is, as I have said elsewhere on this forum, an art to learning

how to disagree without being disagreeable. I think we can all

do it -- I think we can all show our biases without being nasty or

calling names. I'm not a great debater, but I think we can all

benefit from some debate and discussion with people who see

things differently than we do.

 

dcdeb

[lollipop_monkey]

OK, off-topic... :)IMO, and I emphasize again IMO, and I guess I should add IME (in my Experience), it's all about listening to your inner self -- knowing yourself.

 

It's all terrifyingly scary, but when you come right down to it, so is most of life!

 

But that's also what makes it so worth living!

 

That's sounds advice, for sure. My own mother got pregnant (and married!) at 17, and many of my friends who are parents had children who weren't planned. So the concept of steering your own ship and actively deciding if/when to have kids is foreign to me, and quite daunting.

 

...when she got pregnant with me, that IMMEDIATELY during sex, she just had a moment of like "Wow... that's it, I know I'm pregnant. "

 

She said it was some kind of mothery thing. She just knew when I had been conceived at that very second. I like to think it's some kind of maternal, psychological thing.

 

Do you think the fact that your mother told you this has coloured your perspectives on when a newly-conceived child is actually a baby, and not just a ball of rapidly-dividing tissue?

[BonjourMika1990]

That's sounds advice, for sure. My own mother got pregnant (and married!) at 17, and many of my friends who are parents had children who weren't planned. So the concept of steering your own ship and actively deciding if/when to have kids is foreign to me, and quite daunting.

 

 

 

Do you think the fact that your mother told you this has coloured your perspectives on when a newly-conceived child is actually a baby, and not just a ball of rapidly-dividing tissue?

 

awww I think that has something to do with it...atleast for me * I feel like this is therapy lol*

[Guest]

Hey, am I wrong?

 

dcdeb

No, I just thought it was funny. I'm not even sure why, I just pictured you saying that in real life and it make me laugh.

 

Do you think the fact that your mother told you this has coloured your perspectives on when a newly-conceived child is actually a baby, and not just a ball of rapidly-dividing tissue?

 

'COLORED' IS NOT SPELLED WITH A 'U'.

*yanks Mana's hair out*

 

Kidding. Honestly, maybe it has a little bit. In fact, I'm pretty sure it has a little bit. But I was pro-life before she ever told me that story.

[dcdeb]

Probably mad at me for something or other.

 

I have this thing where I get on peoples' bad sides. Have you noticed?

 

I just wanted to say about this -- I don't feel hostility or

anything toward you with anything you say. I wish that you

weren't so aggressive in some of your statements -- they're

a little too strong for my taste. And I wish you didn't have such

a big chip on your shoulder, thinking that everyone was out to

get you, all the time.

 

But overall, I think you're a bright, articulate young woman

who likes to be heard. And mostly I like hearing from you.

Believe it or not, I don't feel like you're on my "bad side," and

I hope I'm not on yours.

 

And yes, I will look for that Alice in Wonderland music box for

you the next time I'm in Disney World!

 

That part about "crying.." was so poetic deb:mf_lustslow:

I love what you said...

when I get married (and I know it's easy for me to say now when I'm so young...) I want it just to be for me and him, no one else...I wanna travel and develop a career... I mean kids are great, but they must come at the right time...

 

*couch* politically speaking, it must be rough on the kids of politicians:biggrin2:

 

Yes, keeping on topic... it must be. You're all too young to remember

Amy Carter, and probably even too young to really remember

Chelsea Clinton, but ugh. An only child growing up in the White House?

How weird must that have been?

 

And yes, kids at the right time is a good thing... unfortunately, they

don't *always* come when you want them to. I was lucky that

way -- as a good Catholic girl I wasn't supposed to be practicing

birth control... but even our priest realized the difference between

theory and practical living.

 

 

She said it was some kind of mothery thing. She just knew when I had been conceived at that very second. I like to think it's some kind of maternal, psychological thing.

 

I can't explain it. But I did just KNOW. And nine months later, I was

vindicated

 

dcdeb

[lollipop_monkey]

Honestly, maybe it has a little bit. In fact, I'm pretty sure it has a little bit. But I was pro-life before she ever told me that story.

 

I can see how hearing that would definitely impact your perspectives on when life begins

 

'COLORED' IS NOT SPELLED WITH A 'U'.

*yanks Mana's hair out*

 

It is in Canada! Along with honour and glamour. :lightsabre:

 

Sheesh. Americans might not all be right-wing religious zealots - but they certainly can't spell.

 

And what's up with "zee"? It's "zed" people!

[mandilambi]

We just don't like U's in America. Doesn't mean we can't spell.

[dcdeb]

No, I just thought it was funny. I'm not even sure why, I just pictured you saying that in real life and it make me laugh.

 

Hey, one day we'll meet IRL and I'll say something like that just

so I can hear you laugh!

 

dcdeb

[Guest]

I just wanted to say about this -- I don't feel hostility or

anything toward you with anything you say. I wish that you

weren't so aggressive in some of your statements -- they're

a little too strong for my taste. And I wish you didn't have such

a big chip on your shoulder, thinking that everyone was out to

get you, all the time.

 

But overall, I think you're a bright, articulate young woman

who likes to be heard. And mostly I like hearing from you.

Believe it or not, I don't feel like you're on my "bad side," and

I hope I'm not on yours.

 

And yes, I will look for that Alice in Wonderland music box for

you the next time I'm in Disney World!

 

dcdeb

 

I don't think everyone is out to get me.

OMG WHY WOULD YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT? Do you like... hate me because I'm Catholic / American / A GIRL?! STOP THREATENING MEEEEEE!

 

It is in Canada! Along with honour and glamour. :lightsabre:

 

Sheesh. Americans might not all be right-wing religious zealots - but they certainly can't spell.

 

And what's up with "zee"? It's "zed" people!

 

We just don't like U.

Get it! U = SOUNDS LIKE 'You'!

AHAHAHAHHAHAHA

I slay me!

[Guest]

Hey, one day we'll meet IRL and I'll say something like that just

so I can hear you laugh!

 

dcdeb

 

Well I laugh alot, so yay for you!

 

And yay for Alice in Wonderland!

And yay for music boxes!

You better come through with the goods.

[lollipop_monkey]

Ernie says:

 

"Embrace the 'U'!"

[dcdeb]

I don't think everyone is out to get me.

OMG WHY WOULD YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT? Do you like... hate me because I'm Catholic / American / A GIRL?! STOP THREATENING MEEEEEE!

 

That does it...

 

Ernie says:

 

"Embrace the 'U'!"

 

 

Awww, Ernie. How could anyone not like Ernie?

 

 

dcdeb

[Guest]

Ernie says:

 

"Embrace the 'U'!"

 

Sarie says:

 

Have some Boosh!

[lovempls]

And what's up with "zee"? It's "zed" people!

 

Weird

 

I've seriously never heard anyone say that, is that bad?

[heineken22]

ha.

 

wow.

 

so, i guess things have calmed a bit since i was in here last, eh?

[Guest]

That does it...

 

dcdeb

 

 

 

[dcdeb]

 

 

Does that come in a t-shirt? I have to get that for my son.

 

dcdeb

[Guest]

Does that come in a t-shirt? I have to get that for my son.

 

dcdeb

 

Not that I know of.

Maybe I'll make myself one, though. I just found that on an icon site.

 

If it turns out half decent, I'll send ya one.

[Diana]

ha.

 

wow.

 

so, i guess things have calmed a bit since i was in here last, eh?

 

Seems like they have!