Let's talk POLITICS ( NO FIGHTS)

[BonjourMika1990]

I've noticed alot of the pro-choice people are saying "Well you can have your own opinion."

 

But at the same time, they're not really confronting Melanie and I with facts... they're more-so saying that we only think the way we do because we're Catholic, American, or whatever.

 

It's like you think we're too dumb to actually explain your reasoning to. Melanie and I are offering our opinion with our heart on our sleeves. Telling you what we think, and why we think it.

 

Right on Sarie. I don't know of any other way to present our opinions to this particular issue without our hearts on our sleeves.

[Guest]

You know full well that this isn't what I meant.

I wasn't accusing you of saying that. I'm simply saying that if you're going by that reasoning, then the second theory would have to hold true in your opinion.

 

Well, here we are now!

I can understand how someone can disagree with abortion, but not how they can expect others to live by their beliefs.

I don't expect you to live by my beliefs. I expect you to discuss why you feel the way you do without making Melanie, myself, or anybody else feel small, and that our opinions don't matter.

[babspanky]

Ahh, that's the disconnect; the difference in methods based upon the stage of pregnancy.

 

That said, aren't some jurisdictions introducing legislation against late-stage abortions?

 

Yes, we go up to 24 weeks currently, but I believe they are discussing taking it down to 20.

[BonjourMika1990]

I don't get why people with a religion are sort of looked down upon... Not pointing anyone out for saying so here...BUT I feel like believing in SOMETHING is better than believing in nothing at all...

[Finkster]

At what stage in its development was it?

 

A few months, I believe. Probably about four.

[soon-to-bemrs.penniman]

A few months, I believe. Probably about four.

 

k

[greta]

I mean I don't expect anyone to live by my beliefs... Im just sad that people actually kill unborn babies and try and justify that... I know i'm not going to change anyone's mind, but saying what I believe has nothing to do with my religion... In fact, anti abortion is one of the few things I agree about with my faith.

contextualizing the deal,would you mind to keep alive a baby with nearly unbearable problems which surely {at the post-foetus stage} will suffer a lot,and maybe will be naturally dead if there aren't the machines and other medical stuff? without thinking of the parents'lives stolen to minister an unreal life of ones who hadn't choose to stay alive perforce

[Guest]

No one said that people who went to catholic schools were unintelligent!

In my experience, though, people who have strong faith, don't question as much.

 

I don't know if you're aware of this or not (and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way), but I'm not Catholic because I was raised that way... nobody in my family is Catholic, except ONE old relative. He married into the family, however, and they never had children.

 

I'm Catholic by choice. I took the classes over a long period of time. I spent time at Mass and talking to Catholics. I studied multiple religions including Hinduism, Judaism, Mormon, etc. before I decided on what I wanted to live my life as.

 

I think it's unfair to call a group of people unknowledgeable or unquestioning simply based on their religion. That's very ignorant, in my opinion.

[greta]

A few months, I believe. Probably about four.

in any case it can't scream.

[BonjourMika1990]

contextualizing the deal,would you mind to keep alive a baby with nearly unbearable problems which surely {at the post-foetus stage} will suffer a lot,and maybe will be naturally dead if there aren't the machines and other medical stuff? without thinking of the parents'lives stolen to minister an unreal life of ones who hadn't choose to stay alive perforce

 

Again I'm not sure what the question is...

sorry, can you elaborate?

[BonjourMika1990]

in any case it can't scream.

 

[Guest]

in any case it can't scream.

 

Why not? ...

[Finkster]

in any case it can't scream.

 

That's true, but it opens it's mouth to scream.

[Diana]

How is it nonsense though? I understand that what is considered legal abortion you agree with... but I don't see what the difference is killing a baby at 12 weeks as opposed to killing a baby at 24 weeks.

 

MY VIEW: A fetus is a baby. Here's one definition

an unborn baby from the eighth week after fertilization until delivery But I don't go by what science presents me...

 

That group of cells was meant to be born...

 

It all comes down to where we draw the line between fetus and baby.

To you there's no difference because from the moment of conception it's a baby in your view.

To me there is a difference because I think there's a distinct difference between fetus and baby.

We'll never agree on this subject.

 

And the group of cells wasn't meant to do anything.

I've always hated that as an explanation "it was meant to be."

We make choices and deal with the consequences.

Plus you don't know if the cells will develop into a baby or if the person will have a miscarriage. Anything could happen.

[babspanky]

I wasn't accusing you of saying that. I'm simply saying that if you're going by that reasoning, then the second theory would have to hold true in your opinion.

 

 

I don't expect you to live by my beliefs. I expect you to discuss why you feel the way you do without making Melanie, myself, or anybody else feel small, and that our opinions don't matter.

 

I feel the way I do because I have lived for lots of years, have known lots of people in lots of different predicaments and there is no such thing as black or white or one size fits all.

I believe in tolerance and trying to put yourself in others' situations.

I don't believe that a baby is formed enough at the stage legal abortions are performed, to know what is happening.

That's why I feel the way I do.

If I made you or Melanie feel small it was not intended, but I find your zeal slightly unnerving.

[Finkster]

Why not? ...

 

I think she means you can't hear it scream, but you can see it and see the pain in the child's face.

[greta]

Why not? ...

because vocal chords are the latest to be formed.

a baby usually cryes after the birth, it's an instinctive act to open the aereal passages for the first time and start breathing

[Guest]

I think she means you can't hear it scream, but you can see it and see the pain in the child's face.

 

Oh. Thanks.

[babspanky]

I don't know if you're aware of this or not (and I don't mean that in a sarcastic way), but I'm not Catholic because I was raised that way... nobody in my family is Catholic, except ONE old relative. He married into the family, however, and they never had children.

 

 

I think it's unfair to call a group of people unknowledgeable or unquestioning simply based on their religion. That's very ignorant, in my opinion.

 

When did I do that?

[BonjourMika1990]

It all comes down to where we draw the line between fetus and baby.

To you there's no difference because from the moment of conception it's a baby in your view.

To me there is a difference because I think there's a distinct difference between fetus and baby.

We'll never agree on this subject.

 

And the group of cells wasn't meant to do anything.

I've always hated that as an explanation "it was meant to be."

We make choices and deal with the consequences.

Plus you don't know if the cells will develop into a baby or if the person will have a miscarriage. Anything could happen.

 

 

That's right anything could happen.. What's wrong with beleiving "it was meant to be..."

 

SEX=KIDS

[lollipop_monkey]

But at the same time, they're not really confronting Melanie and I with facts... they're more-so saying that we only think the way we do because we're Catholic, American, or whatever.

 

It's like you think we're too dumb to actually explain your reasoning to. Melanie and I are offering our opinion with our heart on our sleeves. Telling you what we think, and why we think it.

 

You don't have to be Catholic or American to be pro-life. Just like you don't have to be a soul-less anarchist or something to be pro-choice.

 

The only correlation that I've seen is that people of strong faith are often pro-life, and that the US has a notably high percentage of people who are of strong faith.

 

Why I'm pro-choice:

• Because if there are no legal methods, some women WILL seek out dodgy, illegal methods
   
  
• Because a child born to a mother who's forced to have the child "to pay for her mistakes" is HIGHLY unlikely to have a good upbringing
   
  
• Because there are so many grey areas - rape, a severely disabled child, etc - that sweeping legislation could not, IMHO, possible cover all bases.
  

 

That said, I think abortion should be an absolute last resort, and the thought of a young women obtaining an abortion as easily as she goes to the market for some apples is horrifying.

 

Not getting into the situation in the first place is paramount. Birth control education needs to be repeated over and over and over. And, in an ideal world, familes would support their young daughters unexpected pregnancies and help them consider other options.

 

Unfortunately, the world isn't ideal.

[Guest]

When did I do that?

 

In my experience, though, people who have strong faith, don't question as much.

 

Sounds a bit like brainwashing to me, sorry, but it does. I know the Catholic Church schools will teach their beliefs, but , well.

 

When did I do that?

 

You're welcome.

[soon-to-bemrs.penniman]

ha:naughty:

 

reading this thread is interesting and eye opening

 

but i'm not going to try to defend my views/ opinions/interpretations because i'll get myself and (everyone else) all confused.

 

but i can say this, would you like abortion (all forms) to be illegal and have women getting rid of their fetuses in other non-medical, unsanitary, and much more dangerous ways?

 

Because if Roe v. Wade is overturned, everyone is not going to all of sudden change their opinions and decide to keep their babies or give them up for adoption.

 

They will find ways of having it done if they are forced to

 

(ex. meeting a creepy person with a hanger in an alleyway)

there was this really interesting article on abortion in Time magazine a couple months back. It talked both sides of the argument and it was really interesting

 

The cover was a person holding replicas of fetuses at different stages in their palm.

 

does anyone know what i'm talking about?

 

 

anyone?

[Guest]

You don't have to be Catholic or American to be pro-life. Just like you don't have to be a soul-less anarchist or something to be pro-choice.

 

The only correlation that I've seen is that people of strong faith are often pro-life, and that the US has a notably high percentage of people who are of strong faith.

 

Why I'm pro-choice:

• Because if there are no legal methods, some women WILL seek out dodgy, illegal methods
   
  
• Because a child born to a mother who's forced to have the child "to pay for her mistakes" is HIGHLY unlikely to have a good upbringing
   
  
• Because there are so many grey areas - rape, a severely disabled child, etc - that sweeping legislation could not, IMHO, possible cover all bases.
  

 

That said, I think abortion should be an absolute last resort, and the thought of a young women obtaining an abortion as easily as she goes to the market for some apples is horrifying.

 

Not getting into the situation in the first place is paramount. Birth control education needs to be repeated over and over and over. And, in an ideal world, familes would support their young daughters unexpected pregnancies and help them consider other options.

 

Unfortunately, the world isn't ideal.

 

 

I mean the following completely unsarcastically:

 

Thank you so much for your opinions. I can honestly understand why you feel the way you do, and respect you for not only giving us your reasoning as well as your feelings, but also for not bringing anybody down in your explanation.

[Guest]

anyone?

 

The cover sounds really familiar, but I don't remember the article. Sorry.