BonjourMika1990 Posted December 30, 2007 Author Share Posted December 30, 2007 Freakonomics p.144 "There are roughly 1.5 million abortions in the United States every year. For a person who believes that 1 newborn is worth 100 fetuses, those 1.5 million abortions would translate - dividing 1.5 million by 100 - into the equivalent of a loss of 15,000 human lives. Fifteen thousand lives: that happens to be about the same number of people who die in homicides in the United States every year. And it is far more than the number of homicides eliminated each year due to legalized abortion. So even for someone who considers a fetus to be worth only one one-hundreth of a human being, the trade-off between higher abortion and lower crime is, by an economist's reckoning, terribly inefficient." interesting statistic:thumb_yello: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovempls Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 interesting statistic:thumb_yello: It's a very interesting book I don't even really like economics that much and I hate math but this book is addictive, it's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohwowitsnicka Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Wasnt this thread about politics? lol. xD I think Barack Obama is going to win the US elections, because he has Oprah on his side. I mean, she tells people to read books, people read them. She tells people to buy certain things, people buy them.... Do you see where im going with this? Kidding. In all seriousness, I think Hilary Clinton should win, she seems like a nice lady, and im pretty sure she would do a great job! And a woman president would be pretty cool for you guys, no? It's a change! I better leave now, I suck at debating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollipop Leftie Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 It would be cool, but she's not the right one for the job, even if its just bad PR in her way. I mean, politics isn't just a political game anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk448 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I don't get why people with a religion are sort of looked down upon... Not pointing anyone out for saying so here...BUT I feel like believing in SOMETHING is better than believing in nothing at all... Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Good point. This is a very narrtastic thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk448 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 In all my years, I've never been around people who were pro choice...I guess I don't understand how anyone could agree with it... And it seems as though the opposite is true for others on here as well... I actually know people on both sides. I can understand each point. I'm just saying that writing off our opinion because we are American, Catholic, blah, blah, blah is so ridiculous. We sit here and say that religion shouldn't be involved in so much, but as soon as I say I am pro-life, it's because of my religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk448 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 This is a very narrtastic thread. Dude, I know. I'm getting wrapped up in the narr. I think I need to leave before I get called ignorant, stupid, or brainwashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 And it seems as though the opposite is true for others on here as well... I actually know people on both sides. I can understand each point. I'm just saying that writing off our opinion because we are American, Catholic, blah, blah, blah is so ridiculous. We sit here and say that religion shouldn't be involved in so much, but as soon as I say I am pro-life, it's because of my religion. Exactly. I'm proud of where I'm from, but even BEFORE I was Catholic, I was pro-life. Dude, I know. I'm getting wrapped up in the narr. I think I need to leave before I get called ignorant, stupid, or brainwashed. RUN! GO! RUN! You're just like the French. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkster Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 And it seems as though the opposite is true for others on here as well... I actually know people on both sides. I can understand each point. I'm just saying that writing off our opinion because we are American, Catholic, blah, blah, blah is so ridiculous. We sit here and say that religion shouldn't be involved in so much, but as soon as I say I am pro-life, it's because of my religion. It's true that my religion plays a part in why I'm pro-life, but I've been pro-life before I became devout in my faith. It's not only my religion which influences my stand, but also my own personal morals and views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk448 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Exactly. I'm proud of where I'm from, but even BEFORE I was Catholic, I was pro-life. RUN! GO! RUN! You're just like the French. It's true that my religion plays a part in why I'm pro-life, but I've been pro-life before I became devout in my faith. It's not only my religion which influences my stand, but also my own personal morals and views. Exactly what I am trying to say.... Hell, I'm not even Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 We're going to have our own, cool, anti-abortion club. No one else is invited in. And all the members get free cherry coke and rock candy. Hell, I'm not even Catholic. You're about as dumb as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkster Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Exactly what I am trying to say.... Hell, I'm not even Catholic. Damn stereotypes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk448 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 You're about as dumb as one. Apparently... Damn stereotypes. No kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunkygal Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I think whatever ppl want to do with life is their choice! It really isn't fair to make decisions for people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Ok this is probably not wise of me to say.. but I can't restrain myself. I really don't like it when people play the religion card. "You think we're stupid because we believe in God." Why would you say that? I don't care even if you believe in Marsians ruling the universe, it's your own choice and I respect that. Religion shouldn't be used as an excuse for anything, both in a postive and negative manner. I don't view you as being Catholics, Muslims, Jews or whatever the hell you are. I see you as a person who has an opinion. Whether that opinion is based on science or religion doesn't matter. That's the beauty of opinions, there is no right or wrong, there's just different views and interpretations. To me it seems like you're the ones making a big deal out of the whole religion thing, not me (the token atheïst). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunkygal Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Ok this is probably not wise of me to say.. but I can't restrain myself. I really don't like it when people play the religion card. "You think we're stupid because we believe in God." Why would you say that? I don't care even if you believe in Marsians ruling the universe, it's your own choice and I respect that. Religion shouldn't be used as an excuse for anything, both in a postive and negative manner. I don't view you as being Catholics, Muslims, Jews or whatever the hell you are. I see you as a person who has an opinion. Whether that opinion is based on science or religion doesn't matter. That's the beauty of opinions, there is no right or wrong, there's just different views and interpretations. To me it seems like you're the ones making a big deal out of the whole religion thing, not me (the token atheïst). Nice! I have to agree with you there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 No. The only reason I'm bringing it up is because the atheists of the thread brought it up first. The whole "Catholic schools are brainwashing" attitude, and the entire "you're only pro-life because of your religion." I'm only standing up for myself, as I'm sure the others are doing. If you want to remove religion from the argument, then don't tell people they only believe what they do because of their faith. It's a two way street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovempls Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I think whatever ppl want to do with life is their choice! It really isn't fair to make decisions for people! If you're talking about abortion, then it's not the person - the woman's life. It's a completely different person's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phunkygal Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 No. The only reason I'm bringing it up is because the atheists of the thread brought it up first. The whole "Catholic schools are brainwashing" attitude, and the entire "you're only pro-life because of your religion." I'm only standing up for myself, as I'm sure the others are doing. If you want to remove religion from the argument, then don't tell people they only believe what they do because of their faith. It's a two way street. I have to stand up for her here, she was simply saying that you are being sensitive about your religion and think that everyone is out to make fun of it when really noone is making fun of it, they are stating there oppinions whish may not follow your religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finkster Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Ok this is probably not wise of me to say.. but I can't restrain myself. I really don't like it when people play the religion card. "You think we're stupid because we believe in God." Why would you say that? I don't care even if you believe in Marsians ruling the universe, it's your own choice and I respect that. Religion shouldn't be used as an excuse for anything, both in a postive and negative manner. I don't view you as being Catholics, Muslims, Jews or whatever the hell you are. I see you as a person who has an opinion. Whether that opinion is based on science or religion doesn't matter. That's the beauty of opinions, there is no right or wrong, there's just different views and interpretations. To me it seems like you're the ones making a big deal out of the whole religion thing, not me (the token atheïst). Agree with you there. Throwing the religion card out there to get people on your side just isn't right. I think I may have taken some things said here too seriously myself. I apologize if I made you feel as if I were attacking or against you. I try not to get into any altercations around here. This isn't a place for arguing, that's not why I joined this website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 No. The only reason I'm bringing it up is because the atheists of the thread brought it up first. The whole "Catholic schools are brainwashing" attitude, and the entire "you're only pro-life because of your religion." I'm only standing up for myself, as I'm sure the others are doing. If you want to remove religion from the argument, then don't tell people they only believe what they do because of their faith. It's a two way street. Just like someone said earlier in this thread, we shouldn't make generalisations.. You're referring to atheïsts when in fact you don't know if they all are. You know I am because I said so but I never made any comments about brainwashing or your arguments only being based on religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Just like someone said earlier in this thread, we shouldn't make generalisations.. You're referring to atheïsts when in fact you don't know if they all are. You know I am because I said so but I never made any comments about brainwashing or your arguments only being based on religion. Fine then. We'll leave religion entirely out of it. I'm against abortion. Fin. We should move onto another political topic, due to the fact that this is getting to be known as the "abortion thread" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diana Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Gay marriage? Euthanasia? War? Healthcare systems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kk448 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Hah. I'm playing the religion card? I didn't know there was such a thing. Either way it wasn't brought up until a couple of the pro-choice people said something...basically assuming it was because of my religion that I am pro-life. I don't remember ever saying anything about anyone else's beliefs in any of my arguments, nor did I bring up any nationalities either. Of course, I can only speak for myself. I'm offended by some of the comments and I'm not any of the religions mentioned... Of course, I know that I say some offensive things (not on purpose), however, I'd like to think I do it in a way without making someone feel badly about themselves or what they believe in. If I'm wrong about that, please tell me, but don't say I'm pulling any card when the proof is right there. Well yes, but it's a bit silly to wait with having sex until you want children. And of course you have to be careful and use protection, but it can always go wrong and you don't have to be punished for that for the rest of your life... I understand if you don't want to answer this question, but are you against sex before marriage in general? I don't think so 'cos I don't believe in God. I'd better not have discussion with Americans about subjects like this.... Do all Americans really think this? It just shocks me! I personally don't think there's anything wrong with having sex when you're, like, 16 or 17, but that definatly isn't old enough to raise a child!Are you all against sex before marriage? We got a letter from some muslim organization and it was really disturbing what it said I got scared:boxed: I don't agree with a lot of things in the muslim culture either. In fact, it scares me too and I'm just loathed by the way some of them threat women. Oh I'm not too fond of muslims either but I'm against organized religion as a whole. I agree but there are also nice muslims here to bad there are only a view of them And a lot of the scary ones. The scary muslims think that they own this country and that everybody has to do what they want. 2 days ago I almost ran over 3 muslims in 3 different places because they think they can cross a street in a very none logical place and expect that everybody will stop in time. They have to accept that they are in Holland and not in Turkey or Morocco. They just have to adjust a little when they are here. We should not adjust to there culture. They have to adjust to hours. Some of them are living here for 50 years and they still can't speak a word in dutch Like I said, I'm not fond of muslims.. as much as I'm not fond of Christians, Buddhists and whatever other religion you can think of... I'm talking about the extremists ofcourse. I'm against organized relgion. People can believe in whatever the hell they want but I think it's wrong to live by ancient rules that were made up by some guy in the desert or something in fear of "God's" wrath. I feel respect should be earned. Extremist 'believers' have the tendency to disapprove of everything that's not written in their holy book. They're not open to other possibilities, you either believe what they believe or you'll end up burning in hell. Lucky for me I don't believe in hell. The US has had separation of church and state virtually since its inception. It's been a case of people trying to insert religion into the government where it doesn't belong, not the other way around. I've been discussing a lot of issues with Americans for many years and I've also learned that it's extremely difficult to broach or get in depth on certain topics. I'm speaking generally of course and not about every individual. But we're not having a one-on-one discussion here, we're talking as a group. Generally speaking Americans have some values that differ greatly with Canadians and western Europeans. Many of us are not raised with the same religious influences that pervades everything from your political opinions to views on sex. These are all touchy subjects and in my experience people can get extremely defensive about their beliefs and don't like to be challenged on them. Since most people hold such strong beliefs because that's what they've been taught by their parents, church and state their entire lives, it's often pointless to debate about it because they're not going to change their minds based on any rational argument. The first part I bolded because that's not really true at all... Sounds a bit like brainwashing to me, sorry, but it does. I know the Catholic Church schools will teach their beliefs, but , well.Anyway, I envy your faith. Sincerely. No one said that people who went to catholic schools were unintelligent!In my experience, though, people who have strong faith, don't question as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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