The Appleman : The Return of the Jedi (part 3)

[JackViolet]

So basically you don't approve of the guilt-tripping aspect of it. Fair enough.

 

Yup. I'm a disgrace to my Jewish background.

 

Although you could say I'm totally guilt-tripping you over it, so maybe not so much.

 

it all comes down to logistics, cost and booking/scheduling and no amount of fan pressure can really change that (unless someone has an example where it has? I, for one, have never seen one).

 

Well, Christine seems convinced that Mika chucked the Billy Brown story because of that thread I made. But that's cause he likes obliging me.

 

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, who knows I might be wrong and he or his management might take a petition for example seriously and work harder at organising an Australian tour, but from past experience it's unlikely to happen.

 

I'm more optimistic on this point. I think properly applied pressure (not guilt-tripping or mocking, but stuff like a petition that shows demand and reminders about the fact that Aussies are still waiting impatiently for a tour) might in fact help his management in making Australia more of a priority than it has been so far.

 

--Jack

 

P.S. Sorry if things are being upsetting with the boy.

[Suzy]

So Scut, Christine and I were this close (makes pinching gesture) to watching belly dancers tonight while eating a Moroccan dinner. But the place was booked:thumbdown:

[Scut Monkey]

Yup. I'm a disgrace to my Jewish background.

 

Although you could say I'm totally guilt-tripping you over it, so maybe not so much.

Don't worry, it takes a lot to make me feel guilty. It's a defense mechanism as Moroccan mothers can be just as guilt-trip-happy as Jewish mothers.

 

Sorry if things are being upsetting with the boy.

I'll get over it once I guilt-trip him into an apology.

[Scut Monkey]

So Scut, Christine and I were this close (makes pinching gesture) to watching belly dancers tonight while eating a Moroccan dinner. But the place was booked:thumbdown:

Damn.

 

I guess now the two of you'll just have to fly over to Australia to eat my mum's food and watch me dance (terribly)... much more preferable to waiting for a reservation opening.

[JackViolet]

Don't worry, it takes a lot to make me feel guilty. It's a defense mechanism as Moroccan mothers can be just as guilt-trip-happy as Jewish mothers.

 

Who said I was worried? Now you're just challenging me to up the ante.

 

 

--Jack

[Scut Monkey]

Who said I was worried? Now you're just challenging me to up the ante.

 

 

--Jack

Touche. I'd like to see you try. In 20 years I think I've heard it all.

[Suzy]

Damn.

 

I guess now the two of you'll just have to fly over to Australia to eat my mum's food and watch me dance (terribly)... much more preferable to waiting for a reservation opening.

 

Ha! Another addition to my list of reasons why to visit Australia:

 

-Enjoy Scut's mom's Moroccan cooking.

-Watch Scut belly dance.

[Scut Monkey]

Ha! Another addition to my list of reasons why to visit Australia:

 

-Enjoy Scut's mom's Moroccan cooking.

-Watch Scut belly dance.

The belly dance offer is valid for this weekend only.

 

As for the cooking, we may have to bribe her to do it, proper Moroccan cooking takes a ridiculously long time to do so she only does it if there's a good reason.

[Suzy]

The belly dance offer is valid for this weekend only.

 

As for the cooking, we may have to bribe her to do it, proper Moroccan cooking takes a ridiculously long time to do so she only does it if there's a good reason.

 

Well then hurry and get you webcam ready. Christine and I can order in Morrocan food.

 

Actually, Christine thought of belly dancers tonight because closetmikafan is coming along too. We needed to provide him with some visual stimulation, while Christine and I talk marathon, ad-nauseam about Mika, London, MFC, and MFCers.

[Scut Monkey]

Well then hurry and get you webcam ready. Christine and I can order in Morrocan food.

Damn, you outsmarted me.

 

Actually, Christine thought of belly dancers tonight because closetmikafan is coming along too. We needed to provide him with some visual stimulation, while Christine and I talk marathon, ad-nauseam about Mika, London, MFC, and MFCers.

Good one, Christine.

[Pam Travers]

 

I would hazard a guess that the Aussies are somewhat raw about their lack of Mika...your original post was misinterpreted as being serious, which clearly didn't go over well. As others have said, smileys work well.

 

 

oh please it's really not about my original post being funny or not. It's about everything they said about me in the Austarlian thread like" i rarely HATE people but I srtongly dislike this person " or " the way she writes is so***" or "she is so possessive and jealous she doesnt want mika to tour in Australia" (?????come on !!!!!) or "that's not what they say in the video" (when i'm a native french speaker) etc etc. So compared to those things saying that this person is not an angel is just a slight euphemism and i dont think it's insulting at all. I'm the one they have had bad manners with ,not the other way around.

 

now i came her to discuss the TP but I'm not welcome, right?

I apologize to jack and babspanky and the creators for jumping in their topic and gave away my ideas because apparently you already had a clear idea of what has to be printed(i didnt have the time to read everything) So i think i'll do it on my own with SimonCowell and the brits and the fishes printed on it and I still think the names idea is a great great one.

[Scut Monkey]

No. If it would have been a "joke" I would have put a smiley as you taught me to let you undersatnd that it was. I really think you are not an angel and that you are really mean.

 

And I think you don't know me and should refrain from insulting people you don't know. I haven't at any point called you a bitch or an asshole. So you should mind your manners..

 

oh please it's really not about my original post being funny or not. It's about everything they said about me in the Austarlian thread like" i rarely HATE people but I srtongly dislike this person " or " the way she writes is so***" or "she is so possessive and jealous she doesnt want mika to tour in Australia" (?????come on !!!!!) or "that's not what they say in the video" (when i'm a native french speaker) etc etc. So compared to those things saying that this person is not an angel is just a slight euphemism and i dont think it's insulting at all. I'm the one they have had bad manners with ,not the other way around.

I wasn't involved in the situation but I've observed some inconsistencies: Kelzy never went as far as to call you "mean" as you did her and the majority of the comments that you've quoted from the Aussie thread where made by other people not by her. I also think it's presumptuous to think that you know a person after one interaction on an online forum.

[JackViolet]

Ok, ok, I don't know what's going on, but everyone's welcome here provided that we don't have fights breaking out.

 

Pam, personally I think that remark about angels and stuff was a bit out of line, because it was unwarranted in the context of this thread. Kelzy did not insult you here, to my knowledge, so there was no need to make a dig on her without provocation.

 

I have yet to see what Kelzy may have posted about Pam in the Aussie thread, but it seems like there may be need for a mutual apology, or... something. If Pam's saying the truth about being bashed in the Aussie thread, that's not cool either. But if Scut is right that Kelzy wasn't the one who made those comments...

 

--Jack

[Christine]

Star fruit, anyone?

 

 

Aw, that's so cute. What do they taste like?

 

I have to disagree with you on whether he "owes' us anything or not. I do happen to believe that he owes us a tour because he said very publicly and very specifically on a radio program that he will tour Australia, New Zealand and Asia.

 

All he said was that he would do it in 2008, non? There are 9 months to go before he needs to be called out on reneging on a promise for a tour this year. I realize the cancelled festival dates feel like a cruel tease, but there's still no reason to assume that a tour is not in the plan for this year (give or take a few months).

 

I'm not aiming this at the Aussies specifically, but I think many people's expectations of Mika to tour their area within a short timeframe are ridiculous. It takes most artists 2 or 3 years to get back on the road and cover the world from one album to the next.

 

Two trips to Australia in less than a year is not realistic. He doesn't even perform in Canada more often than that although he's in North America every few months and has a fanbase in Quebec that is only rivalled by the UK and France.

 

I don't follow his career that closely but I'm pretty sure that Michael Bublé did not play Toronto in all of 2007 and he's a Canadian who spent years living and working in this town. It's not all about preferred markets and favouritism. It's just physically impossible to make an album and tour the entire world every 12 months.

 

This is another one of the over-expectations I think is generated by this culture of MFC where the haves make all the have-nots feel like they are missing out on something they deserve because we're all "big fans", one equally deserving of Mika's attention as the next.

 

When I saw Mika in March last year I thought "He's fantastic. I'll definitely catch him in 2008 when he tours again." It never occurred to me that he'd be back any sooner until I logged onto MFC and started hearing about a proposed US tour in the spring and assumed that Canada would be included. When that was denied I started grasping at straws and making plans to see him at a Quebec festival and a Canadian Idol performance. When that fell through I felt horribly deprived and flew off to London.

 

In the end, Mika toured Canada again in early 2008...exactly when I expected him to before my expectations became warped by MFC and Mika's anomalous and hopefully never-to-be-repeated transcontinental hopping in 2007.

 

Damn.

 

I guess now the two of you'll just have to fly over to Australia to eat my mum's food and watch me dance (terribly)... much more preferable to waiting for a reservation opening.

 

I'm there!

 

I'm more optimistic on this point. I think properly applied pressure (not guilt-tripping or mocking, but stuff like a petition that shows demand and reminders about the fact that Aussies are still waiting impatiently for a tour) might in fact help his management in making Australia more of a priority than it has been so far.

 

I think so too. Keeping it at the forefront of their minds will certainly help the cause. If it's something Mika wants to pursue for his own reasons he may be able to use petitions, etc. to facilitate his own desire to get over to Asia and Australia again. You never know.

 

At the very least I think you want to put a fairly positive spin on any attempts to get him to come to Australia because he will come one day no matter what. I'm sure you'd prefer that he's enthusiastic about it and looking forward to seeing his fans, rather than feeling obliged and a bit wary.

[Scut Monkey]

All he said was that he would do it in 2008, non? There are 9 months to go before he needs to be called out on reneging on a promise for a tour this year. I realize the cancelled festival dates feel like a cruel tease, but there's still no reason to assume that a tour is not in the plan for this year (give or take a few months).

I'm not calling him out yet, that's a pleasure reserved for January 1st 2009.

 

At the very least I think you want to put a fairly positive spin on any attempts to get him to come to Australia because he will come one day no matter what. I'm sure you'd prefer that he's enthusiastic about it and looking forward to seeing his fans, rather than feeling obliged and a bit wary.

That's a good point.

 

But it's all about what we want, not what he feels.*

 

*I'm adding this note in case someone missed the sarcasm of that statement.

[JackViolet]

At the very least I think you want to put a fairly positive spin on any attempts to get him to come to Australia because he will come one day no matter what. I'm sure you'd prefer that he's enthusiastic about it and looking forward to seeing his fans, rather than feeling obliged and a bit wary.

 

That was rather my point too. I don't think you guys would want him to be irritated and feeling put upon by Australian fans. And we've already discussed how he can be a bit sensitive to fans taking liberties and joking about at his expense, so this ain't likely to endear the Aussies to him any.

 

About the Kelzy/Pam fiasco: okay, I read over the background.

 

1. Pam, your first post really was a bit difficult to read properly, so I can see how people didn't take it as a joke.

 

3. However, a number of people in the Aussie thread really took off on the misunderstanding (and added a few more regarding the youtube video and assumptions of whether you spoke to Mika and stuff) and ran with it, and some of these people probably should in fact apologize to you.

 

4. Oakie Doakie already did though, and admitted it was all due to misunderstanding and confusion.

 

5. While I agree some people said some hurtful stuff about you without making sure they understood you first... Kelzy was not one of those people. All of her posts in the original thread with the debate were just trying to figure out what happened and what you meant. Once she realized what incident you were referring to (as well as which version of it--there are at least 3 different recounts of that event that I know) AND that it was meant as a joke, she admitted that she misunderstood you at first, and seemed amenable to a truce. She did not, that I see, actually attack you anywhere.

 

--Jack

[Christine]

It's about everything they said about me in the Austarlian thread like" i rarely HATE people but I srtongly dislike this person " or " the way she writes is so***" or "she is so possessive and jealous she doesnt want mika to tour in Australia" (?????come on !!!!!) or "that's not what they say in the video" (when i'm a native french speaker) etc etc. So compared to those things saying that this person is not an angel is just a slight euphemism and i dont think it's insulting at all. I'm the one they have had bad manners with ,not the other way around.

 

I'm not sure what went on in the Australian thread but it's best to address it there or bring it to the attention of a mod if you feel you are being mistreated and can't resolve the situation directly with the people involved.

 

You may feel what you said to Kelzy was comparatively minor to what people were saying to you in another thread, but it was unprovoked here and therefore uncalled for. Perhaps the comments you received were also unprovoked and uncalled for - but you have to let someone know if that's the case. Carrying it around the forum to other threads just aggravates the situation on both sides.

[JackViolet]

I'm not aiming this at the Aussies specifically, but I think many people's expectations of Mika to tour their area within a short timeframe are ridiculous. It takes most artists 2 or 3 years to get back on the road and cover the world from one album to the next.

 

........

 

When I saw Mika in March last year I thought "He's fantastic. I'll definitely catch him in 2008 when he tours again." It never occurred to me that he'd be back any sooner until I logged onto MFC and started hearing about a proposed US tour in the spring and assumed that Canada would be included.

 

By the way, THIS.

 

After I saw Mika this past summer, I did not expect to see him again till next summer at least. If he came once a year, I'd already consider that frequent.

 

When people started talking about a possible return to the US that very fall, I thought they were being completely unrealistic. When any plans (if they ever existed!) for a US tour in the fall fell through, and people complained, I thought they were crazy. He had just been there a few months ago! I mean, really! And how can you complain about a tour that was scrapped before even being announced, considering he'd just been here a few months ago? (I also think Londoners are crazy when they whine about being Mika-deprived because he's off somewhere not-in-England for two months.)

 

I still think it's remarkable that Mika came back to the US this winter. He's toured the US twice in the space of a year, and that's really more than I expected. I'm still keeping this as a +1 on his record, and I'm STILL not expecting him to tour here any more frequently than once a year in the coming future. He may prove me wrong, but I'm sticking to my original expectations.

 

I know Aussies are waiting and I understand wanting to whine and bitch about the wait, but I do think that MFC expectations regarding how often Mika can or should tour are rather unnaturally high.

 

--Jack

[Scut Monkey]

I agree that the MFC's expectations are a bit high.

 

But I also think that he over-estimates his abilities too. Didn't he once say that it's challenging to release an album world-wide simultaneously? At the time he may have said it in a proud manner but I'm sure that after the year he's had he won't be doing the same thing again.

[JackViolet]

I agree that the MFC's expectations are a bit high.

 

But I also think that he over-estimates his abilities too. Didn't he once say that it's challenging to release an album world-wide simultaneously? At the time he may have said it in a proud manner but I'm sure that after the year he's had he won't be doing the same thing again.

 

Oh yeah, Mika was kinda crazy with his planned itinerary for last year. He learned his lesson.

 

If he/his management had listened to me earlier (as of course they should!) he would never have gotten that sick either.

 

--Jack

[Scut Monkey]

If he/his management had listened to me earlier (as of course they should!)

 

 

Have they hired you yet?

[JackViolet]

 

 

Have they hired you yet?

 

No, but all this hanging around the MFC is going to make me fail out of grad school soon, so they should hurry up already and make me an offer!

 

--Jack

[REBEKA]

About the tomato: it couldn't really have been Eve's apple, because tomatoes do not grow on trees. Also, the fact that it's called "apple of love" in Latin is interesting, but can't be counted as a factor, because:

 

1. the Old Testament was not written in Latin

 

2. It is not actually specified that Eve ate an "apple." The word actually used in the Old Testament means simply "fruit," not "apple." But because "apple" was used as kind of a catch-all word for basic fruits (as you see yourself with that whole apple-of-ground, apple-of-love, etc) it was translated as "apple" into the Latin, upon which most other modern translations have been based.

 

Wikipedia: "One of the problems identifying apples in religion, mythology and folktales is that the word "apple" was used as a generic term for all (foreign) fruit, other than berries but including nuts, as late as the 17th C. CE."

 

3. One possibility that scholars have brought up is that the fruit Eve ate was actually a pomegranate. A pomegranate has great mythical significance in other traditions, and exists as both a fruit of power and a fruit of damnation in Greek myths. It was also associated with fertility in Egypt. But really, that's no more or less proven than that it was an apple, although portraying it as an apple may have been itself an attempt by later readers to inject Greek mythology into the bible.

 

--Jack

 

Privet, kak dela?

 

I was writing about it earlier, I looked in the original Hebrew bible and there is just this "pri etz", the tree fruit.

 

About the pomegranate possibility, it`s one of the options. I don`t know about the Greek or Egyptian legends of pomegranate or how they might have influenced the guys that were writing the Tora (the jewish bible).. In every case, nowadays pomegranate is traditionally eaten on Rosh Ha-shana, the jewish new year which usually falls on some day in September. Its numerous seeds symbolise the lot of luck for the new year (another tradition is to dip a piece od apple into honey and wish "Shana metuka!" which means "Sweet year!"). Also the seeds symbolise god`s numerous commandments, good deeds to be done etc.

http://kosherfood.about.com/od/roshhashana/a/pomegranate.htm

Rosh Ha-shana commemorates creation of the world so might have some connection with Adam and Eva.

[Christine]

No, but all this hanging around the MFC is going to make me fail out of grad school soon, so they should hurry up already and make me an offer!

 

--Jack

 

I can barely hold down a real job either.

 

On top of playing in my hometown on a quarterly basis, inviting me to champagne receptions and being available for hugs and non-stop nattering, I think Mika should also offer me full-time employment.

 

I paid $9.99 for his album and I'm a really big fan. I expect something in return for my loyalty and support.

[JackViolet]

Privet, kak dela?

 

I was writing about it earlier, I looked in the original Hebrew bible and there is just this "pri etz", the tree fruit.

 

About the pomegranate possibility, it`s one of the options. I don`t know about the Greek or Egyptian legends of pomegranate or how they might have influenced the guys that were writing the Tora (the jewish bible).. In every case, nowadays pomegranate is traditionally eaten on Rosh Ha-shana, the jewish new year which usually falls on some day in September. Its numerous seeds symbolise the lot of luck for the new year (another tradition is to dip a piece od apple into honey and wish "Shana metuka!" which means "Sweet year!"). Also the seeds symbolise god`s numerous commandments, good deeds to be done etc.

http://kosherfood.about.com/od/roshhashana/a/pomegranate.htm

Rosh Ha-shana commemorates creation of the world so might have some connection with Adam and Eva.

 

Privet, neploho!

 

I actually know all this about the Torah already, 'cause I'm part Jewish. Also, I like being a smartass. I remain proud of the day when we had a whole lot of rabbinical students on campus who had this booth set up, where if you asked them a question they'd give you a candy (I think it was a way for them to study for exams) and I stumped 2 of them with a question about niddah laws. They told me they'd consult with a rabbi and get back to me, but they never did...

 

--Jack