Tone on the Mfc

[pinkunicorn123]

So when im not posting (on the rare occasion), I lurk in other threads and over the past few weeks it has come to my attention that there is a lot of hostility with the mfc. Members are being victimised because comments they have made have been taken out of context and responses have come in kind to how they are read.

So i think its time for a well overdue rant about the tone of some members messages on here because this 'family forum' seems not to be what it appears.

 

Bullying can come in many forms, not just through assaults and abuse. We have to be aware that the majority of mfc members are quite young and persistent behaviour such teasing, embarrasing, humiliating and deliberately ostracising someone or generally being rather sarcastic or aggressive in phrasing towards members or their opinions IS bullying, and it is something that isnt welcome on this site.

 

Tone is very important.

It can mean the difference between being nice and being a bitch.

It's the beauty of the spoken language, I think you'll agree.

Well, part of it anyway.

 

However, when it comes to writing, tone just disappears, don't you think?

And no one can be sure as to how you mean something, which is why we all feel the need to add icons with sunglasses.

But ''s all about the way YOU read something, correct?

 

Isn't it INTERESTING?!

 

Meaning, that if someone had written something and you read it as being mean and sarcastic then really it is YOU who is to blame for the sarcastic comments.

It’s because of this that I think a lot of members (and I do stand up to be counted as someone who is not an innocent party to this) need to open their eyes a little more and not to base comments on the mood that they are in - people’s perceptions can be controversial.

 

93% of human communication is conducted through non-verbal signs - body language, tone etc. For the majority of us, when we are on the phone, our hands are still very active while we speak because we are still portraying what we are saying but through a means that is not viewable by whom we are talking to.

7% - the received percentage of the message communicated by the words you use

38% - the received percentage of the message communicated by your vocal tone

55% - the received percentage of the message communicated by your non-verbal gestures

 

And it does make the internet very difficult I agree!

 

Often we have to ask people to rephrase something; because they way they wrote it sounds a completely different way that how they meant it to.

 

I feel people should make sure when they use a limited channel of communication such as the written word, to ensure their true intention and tone is portrayed.

Oddly enough, emoticons do genuinely help the problem somewhat (that is why they were 'invented') so maybe we should stop using them out of context.

 

Because of inventions like the internet, and to a lesser extent texting, humans are now required to invent a new way of communication, one that deals in words alone with no tone and little expression. A form of communication that goes against the last million years of linguistic evolution. Even apes use hand signals and body language more than sounds. Humans were no exception to this. Spoken language is really a recent invention; somewhere in the last hundred thousand years or so. Even amongst the animal kingdom its action that takes precedent over noise.

 

As communication via the internet grows it will be interesting to see how our communications skills will evolve with it.

 

I realise we have to respect any language barriers at play because the mfc is available on all networks.

But if you don’t know the correct word, ask someone who can help you choose something suitable.

Words written with jokes, or the best intensions, can so easily be misunderstood. Sometimes things I’ve written I've had to double check to make sure that a new pair of eyes might have nothing to find offence at.

And often things that are said in one language never translate over to the written words of another, a good example is the words I have seen some people on here use in replacement of the phase "I said." instead they have used 'Like' or something similar, it's so casual to some but for those who are not adapt to English/American slang, it can be very confusing.

 

I was like 'so what' and he was like 'no way'

 

You speak it, it makes sense, but you write it, it just looks weird.

 

Sooner or later I suspect humans might move beyond words and language altogether.

 

We evolved to the stage where we could develop and use language, now we spend all our time finding ways to say the same thing in less time/space, and we invent technology so we don't need to speak at all.

 

Eventually, communication via telepathy type systems will be commonplace - and move beyond barriers like foreign languages (on the fly translation is already near here)

 

Evolution logically ends with us doing less and less to get what we want. We no longer need to work the fields all day to survive to 40, and so logically in 1000 years time we will be legless blobs that need only think 'I want a Pizza' to get one, instead of having to go on the internet for one instead (I talk of Dominos online system).

 

Computer games (monkeys and humans can already play games where they need only think 'left' and 'right' to o it), vehicular control (we already have cars that auto brake to avoid accidents, and cars that can drive faster round a racetrack than a human), military equipment, contact lenses with screens in them... everything is moving more and more towards not having to write anything anymore, or even use your hands. It won't be long before things start getting much weirder, trust me.

The curve of technological evolution is exponential, meaning that it continues to accelerate at a faster and faster rate.

 

This is definitely food for thought.

Im sorry for ranting but I think some people here need to take more into account when considering the opinions of others.

I could go into the above sentence more but I think my views on communication will do for now.

 

Discuss.

[4once]

I'm new to this but i agree, this isnt the place i would like to be if that is going on.

[Petra]

I agree. Thank you for posting that thread – I wouldn't have had the courage to do so.

 

Yes, tone is very important in posts.. it is too sad that we don't have the possibility to give our written comments the tone they would have if we said them. It is always hard to say what somebody is aiming at / trying to say in a post. A post can be meant ironic or funny and still it can be read as a negative criticism by other MFCers. As you say Pink – it depends on the mood one is in as well as it depends on what I am expecting people to write. If I have made a post that displays a completely different opinion from what other people have been writing earlier, I do surely expect to not be agreed with and that influences the way I read answering posts.

[robertina]

hey pink....you are a little genius!

i'm not sarcastic, i truly mean.

 

well said and well written and pls, PM me directly if you think i'm writing something not fair to ppl...i miss the right english words sometimes, so i may look weird.

 

i cannot realize this is happening in mfc, but this is just me, as i'm stuck to the same old threads.....

i believe RESPECT for all the others is what we need to have in mind and fingers before we post, plus drawing back a little and being polite.

as in normal civilized relationships of any human kind.

 

[pinkunicorn123]

I agree, but i also think that some people come on here just to argue.

Yesterday in a different thread a saw a whole body of people turn against another member for voicing her opinion - an opinion which i happen to agree with - because it contradicted the image which they had come to accept, and the approach to something which the believed to be true simply because it was their opinion.

Alot of people here need to be more open minded.

[pinkunicorn123]

hey pink....you are a little genius!

i'm not sarcastic, i truly mean.

 

well said and well written and pls, PM me directly if you think i'm writing something not fair to ppl...i miss the right english words sometimes, so i may look weird.

 

i cannot realize this is happening in mfc, but this is just me, as i'm stuck to the same old threads.....

i believe RESPECT for all the others is what we need to have in mind and fingers before we post, plus drawing back a little and being polite.

as in normal civilized relationships of any human kind.

 

 

I am not being negative toward members who face these language barriers, i have a huge respect for their joining and contributing to a website that is out of their comfort zone, but i thought it wasa good idea to point out that sometimes the wrong word or structure is used.

 

As for general respect within this community, i often find that newbies are not accepted for this very reason. Much as we try to avoid it, the mfc has developed cliques, new members are not privy to this and therefore their opinions or thoughts are automatically bumped to the bottom of the pile and the pecking order.

 

Egos need to be left at the door.

[robertina]

I agree, but i also think that some people come on here just to argue.

Yesterday in a different thread a saw a whole body of people turn against another member for voicing her opinion - an opinion which i happen to agree with - because it contradicted the image which they had come to accept, and the approach to something which the believed to be true simply because it was their opinion.

Alot of people here need to be more open minded.

 

i think anyone can express his/her opinion without being agressive.

sometimes the reactions are too strong because the first statement was agressive...

it's difficult to judge.

a word apart can be said for moderators, who need to be tough sometimes in order to prevent forum from going nuts.

[greta]

pinkunicorn...you're so intelligent and sensible...

{can I save your short essay for further uses?}

 

and I follow my rep. speech too..RESPECT & a bit of humility:wink2:

[pinkunicorn123]

i think anyone can express his/her opinion without being agressive.

sometimes the reactions are too strong because the first statement was agressive...

it's difficult to judge.

a word apart can be said for moderators, who need to be tough sometimes in order to prevent forum from going nuts.

 

Moderators do have a difficult job on this site to filter what is said in sarcasm and what is genuine malice, i have seen some mods abuse this authority but i do respect their job.

But i do not think all opinions and statements on here are agressive unless someone disagrees with such passion, i just think that they can be viewed that way because they are convroversial and against the grain of other comments - its makes them stand out and draws unwanted attention.

Free speach should not be looked down upon.

[Petra]

Or another example, I write a post that stands in contrast to what others have been writing and member XY starts like "OMG, WTF?" and then starts ranting about what I wrote. And when I read XY's post it suddenly comes up my mind that he/she is talking about something I had in NO WAY intended to mean with my post (something that hadn't even come up my mind). And then I explain it to him/her (at least I try as good as possible) and what I get back is something like "All cool then :mf_rosetinted:" As I have said before in another thread – this smiley seems like a carte blanche for everything because people don't really know what exactly it means. If I (a non-native speaker) look at the description of the smiley and then look it up in the dictionary (because I have no idea what rosetinted glasses are) I get a totally different idea of it – I know (as an MFC member) that this smiley is often used for sarcastic or ironic posts but anyway – does anybody actually have ANY idea what it REALLY means??? So here we are then – I didn't know what to think about the post member XY made. Did they agree with me now or did they understand what I meant and accept my opinion? Or was XY just like "Oh Petra, shut up, there is no use talking to you about that."?

[Yoppappop]

yeah yeah, ok, i get it

 

but as i said in a pm yesterday or so, when i read something that MIGHT be interpreted as "an attack", if i think i'm not concerned, i just read it, and it doesn't affect me... as to say people who read "so to be interpreted as attacks" AND feel attacked maybe have something to reproach to themselves ?

but i'm not debating... tired of all those useless debates that end up as... nothing constructive ! i think people should think about "is the person who's writing that a mean person ??? and would a mean person write that and then/before something else that i didn't find mean at all, even nice ??? is that person only writing mean posts ??? or am i only remembering "so-called" mean posts ??? is that being mean or sarcastic ??? do i have a reason to feel attacked by this post or is it just because it's HER/HIM who wrote this post that i think it's mean and i take it as mean ???

 

lots of questions, huh ? too complicated... so easy way : she/he's mean... this is a mean post.

[babspanky]

Or another example, I write a post that stands in contrast to what others have been writing and member XY starts like "OMG, WTF?" and then starts ranting about what I wrote. And when I read XY's post it suddenly comes up my mind that he/she is talking about something I had in NO WAY intended to mean with my post (something that hadn't even come up my mind). And then I explain it to him/her (at least I try as good as possible) and what I get back is something like "All cool then :mf_rosetinted:" As I have said before in another thread – this smiley seems like a carte blanche for everything because people don't really know what exactly it means. If I (a non-native speaker) look at the description of the smiley and then look it up in the dictionary (because I have no idea what rosetinted glasses are) I get a totally different idea of it – I know (as an MFC member) that this smiley is often used for sarcastic or ironic posts but anyway – does anybody actually have ANY idea what it REALLY means??? So here we are then – I didn't know what to think about the post member XY made. Did they agree with me now or did they understand what I meant and accept my opinion? Or was XY just like "Oh Petra, shut up, there is no use talking to you about that."?

 

 

I am so tempted to say to you

 

Oh Petra, shut up, there is no use talking to you about that.

 

But I am afraid that I will get a telling off.

 

I agree no bullying, but I don't want my every word to be 'policed' either, or feel that I can't say what I want within reason, which is kind of how I'm feeling with this thread.

We can't all be sunshine and light everyday.

[marlau_20zr]

we must have respect for eachother and express our opinion

i have quite difficult in some thread because i don`t speak/write english ver well, sometimes i don`t know how to express me

 

troubles are everywhere and the MFC has grown up a lot, newbies are often very lost and sometimes they post anything about the theme of the thead and quite annoying

 

but i think if you had trouble with someone in the mfc, you must ingore that person... and if they want to fight, they don`t have to do it here, maybe by chat or something private

[marlau_20zr]

this

is like a "mafia icon"

or al least in the argentinean thread we used like that

but it`s for sarcastic comments too

[pinkunicorn123]

Actually refers to the phrase 'through rose-tinted specticles' meaning that if someone is "seeing the world through rose-tinted glasses," it means that they always look on the bright side of life and are generally happy people. These are your friendly, cheery folks that sometimes you just can't not like. They seem to radiate something beautiful at all times.

E.g. The media say mika is gay and camp, we say he is open and colourful

This is not how we use it, we use it to generally mean sarcasm or the previous words were in jest.

[nico_collard]

It's an interesting topic...

 

I've found some people (English speakers included) who totally miss what I say sometimes... I say one thing, but they take it to mean something else...

 

I try not to hold it against them... even if the way they wrote something I consider to be quite rude...

[Christine]

I agree with Yop. I think in most cases the onus is on the reader to take someone else's post in stride and not get all bent out of shape and defensive about it.

 

Like Babs, I don't want to be policed about everything I say. I choose my words very carefully and consider myself quite articulate so I'm not prepared to take the blame every single time someone gets the wrong end of the stick because of something I've written.

 

I do have a problem with people ganging up on newbies however and I don't like the general groupthink that goes on here where a mob forms when someone gives a dissenting opinion.

[nico_collard]

I am so tempted to say to you

 

Oh Petra, shut up, there is no use talking to you about that.

 

But I am afraid that I will get a telling off.

 

I agree no bullying, but I don't want my every word to be 'policed' either, or feel that I can't say what I want within reason, which is kind of how I'm feeling with this thread.

We can't all be sunshine and light everyday.

I agree with you...

 

That's the reason why the mods try and sit back and watch...

 

I think what's she's saying is, people hould try and be a bit more aware of how they say something... something migh be said in a sarcastic manner, but if you don't know them, you might take what they've said is a different way...

 

The way I see it, it has nothing to do with being nice to people r not sharing your opinion with others...

[pinkunicorn123]

I agree with Yop. I think in most cases the onus is on the reader to take someone else's post in stride and not get all bent out of shape and defensive about it.

 

Like Babs, I don't want to be policed about everything I say. I choose my words very carefully and consider myself quite articulate so I'm not prepared to take the blame every single time someone gets the wrong end of the stick because of something I've written.

 

I do have a problem with people ganging up on newbies however and I don't like the general groupthink that goes on here where a mob forms when someone gives a dissenting opinion.

 

Ah but within English law (the origin of our understanding of it), dissenting opinions are regarded and openly mentioned discussed.

I think sometimes members on here view these opinions as 'culture shocks' and reply through outrage for want of a better word, without looking into the implications of what they are saying.

I dont think posts should be 'policed' as some of you have suggested, just regarded.

[nico_collard]

I agree with Yop. I think in most cases the onus is on the reader to take someone else's post in stride and not get all bent out of shape and defensive about it.

 

Like Babs, I don't want to be policed about everything I say. I choose my words very carefully and consider myself quite articulate so I'm not prepared to take the blame every single time someone gets the wrong end of the stick because of something I've written.

 

I do have a problem with people ganging up on newbies however and I don't like the general groupthink that goes on here where a mob forms when someone gives a dissenting opinion.

You sure are articulate... I find you are one of those people who puts their opinions across without coming across as argumentative...

 

The mob mentality happens with a lot of stuff (HMDYLM anyone? ).. I try not to get caught up with it, cause I like to think for myself...

[pinkunicorn123]

I am so tempted to say to you

 

Oh Petra, shut up, there is no use talking to you about that.

 

But I am afraid that I will get a telling off.

 

I agree no bullying, but I don't want my every word to be 'policed' either, or feel that I can't say what I want within reason, which is kind of how I'm feeling with this thread.

We can't all be sunshine and light everyday.

 

Isnt that the same as saying it though?

By mentioning exactly what you thought you would say?

 

See i thought i would reply that i hoped people would get down off of their high horses for the sakes of this discussion, but that obviously that is not to be the case and that some members on here are being very anal and set in their ways and should really grow up.

 

But ofcourse im not going to say that

[Petra]

I know about some people who more or less stopped posting and going online because of different things that are going on around here. I stopped posting as well but I started again on Friday (after three weeks of absence or so) because I had a thread to make. It seems that the general atmosphere on the forums has become negative - it was horrible there when I left (which was the reason why I left) and I thought that it had gotten a slight bit better now but I'm not sure if this thought was correct. Hm.

 

I cannot really say when it started turning into what it is at the moment (or what I think it is at the moment) (although I'd actually say it has been much worse a few weeks ago but I have to admit that I'm not really up-to-date what everyone is posting on page 45 of thread XY) – however, there was the Big Boredom after Christmas shortly before the US-gigs started. Silly threads were created and people were obviously happy to post on everything that came up their mind. It got often negative, dirtier, often unfriendly, inappropriate and sometimes hateful - but that's my opinion.

[Yoppappop]

i forgot to say that i had been making a lot of efforts lately either NOT to post when i think what i'm gonna post is gonna be like a bomb OR posting something with very carefully chosen words, so carefully chosen that when i press the "reply" button, noone is talking about what i'm talking about anymore :naughty: and it has the effect of a bomb cause people think i'm digging up the sh*t !! so either way : posting or not posting, i'm stuck

 

well, stop the joke... honest, i've been trying, but it's obvious that when i post something that is not decorticated and justified for each word i used, and MIGHT possibly be taken the wrong way, the wrong way is always the one chosen by the people who read it and ô suprise, find it "aggressive"... talking about my posts only... but i'm sorry, i'm not gonna make 1000 words post everytime i want to say something just because a minority of touchy people could be offended by NOTHING ! so for god sake i'm not mean, and nothing i post on here is intended to be mean. so stop thinking that, and think about what i want to say, not about "who i am attacking with that post".

 

i am saying that cause i HAVE EXPERIENCED the situation where i posted something very simple, nothing wrong, nothing important, and someone found a way to think it was mean :blink: the situation is over and it's all good, but i'm tired of having to justify myself after everything i post just because i'm saying things not in all bright pink words...

[pinkunicorn123]

I know about some people who more or less stopped posting and going online because of different things that are going on around here. I stopped posting as well but I started again on Friday (after three weeks of absence or so) because I had a thread to make. It seems that the general atmosphere on the forums has become negative - it was horrible there when I left (which was the reason why I left) and I thought that it had gotten a slight bit better now but I'm not sure if this thought was correct. Hm.

 

I cannot really say when it started turning into what it is at the moment (or what I think it is at the moment) (although I'd actually say it has been much worse a few weeks ago but I have to admit that I'm not really up-to-date what everyone is posting on page 45 of thread XY) – however, there was the Big Boredom after Christmas shortly before the US-gigs started. Silly threads were created and people were obviously happy to post on everything that came up their mind. It got often negative, dirtier, often unfriendly, inappropriate and sometimes hateful - but that's my opinion.

 

Imagination is the one weapon in the war against reality and there is nothing more dreadful than imagination without taste.

 

But i dont know where it has come from either which is why i thought we should open up the table for discussion and nip whatever this is in the bud before we become officially official, and before more newbies walk into this unwelcome environment.

[Christine]

You sure are articulate... I find you are one of those people who puts their opinions across without coming across as argumentative...

 

Thank you, but I know for a fact that some people don't agree. That's why I say that readers have to take some responsibility for how they respond to a post and not necessarily place the blame on the writer if they are offended or misunderstand.

 

If we wrote our posts with the intention of pleasing 8000 people there would be nothing here but "Mika is perfect. Have a nice day."

 

See i thought i would reply that i hoped people would get down off of their high horses for the sakes of this discussion, but that obviously that is not to be the case and that some members on here are being very anal and set in their ways and should really grow up.

 

But ofcourse im not going to say that

 

I think it's worth discussing but every time a thread like this comes up it usually makes vague references to incidents most people are unaware of so not much comes out of it. I don't know what we're really talking about here and I didn't understand what Melanie was talking about when she started a similar thread a few weeks ago.

 

I think we have to talk specifics if we're going to get anywhere but that's probably going to lead to a lot of finger pointing and possibly make matters worse.