P.E.T.A People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

[Sarah_loves_mika]

Because I don't see the link between cruelty to animals and eating meat!

 

Have you stopped drinking milk? Look at the conditions cows live in in milking farms...

Have you stopped eating eggs? Look at these chicks piled up on one another in small cages...

Have you given up on leather?

 

If you want to be a veggie, I'm fine with this, but I don't understand why meat-eaters should be labbelled as people who don't like animals or don't care. There are, imo, better things to do to prevent cruelty to animals than stop eating them.

 

I agree.

 

I worked at an animal shelter for the best part of last year - unpaid. but because im not vegetarian, does that make me cruel to animals?

 

When we had the terrible floods last year, i opened my doors up for a litter of kittens and two other cats, along with my own two cats because the shelter flooded. But because i'm not a vegetarian, does that make me cruel to animals?

 

I too can't understand why meat eaters are labelled as cruel.... its nature. That must mean we are all bad because our ancesters survived on meat... true.

 

 

 

 

 

*FUR

 

Is it wrong for the eskimos to wear fur?? , they dont have access to clothes or shops ...

 

*Animal testing for drugs, medicines etc

 

If you had rats in you home would you kill them?? .. , its subjective ....

 

*Animals for food

 

Of course!! .. Its nature .. we are animals and we eat meat , go pick on a lion or a tiger .. they are animals too ....

 

*General abuse in general like neglect

 

This is wrong .. we should care for animals , starving and kicking them and all the nasty stuff we see is bad

 

 

Those are some good arguments. I never thought about the eskimos and other tribes in different countries. The indigenous people have to make clothes out of whatever is availible.

What about the African people who make drums out of animal skin? Are you going to go and tell them they're evil and that their culture is wrong?

 

 

*whenever i say you, i mean in general btw*

[Oakie Doke]

So Vegetarianism has existed throughout all of time, but it has definitely gone through stages and in cultures where it was more encouraged?

Just like now?

 

Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. Like last night I was all like "Yadda-yadda, yes, Kelzy is right, it is new", but then I have no idea what I was thinking about but I just realised there's all these quotes from Phythagoras and Albert Einstein and Leo Da Vinci and that and like - what? They were ages ago! But yeah, one of those links said something like "Every generation thinks that it's a new thing, but it's really like .. goes through phases" or something

 

I agree.

 

I worked at an animal shelter for the best part of last year - unpaid. but because im not vegetarian, does that make me cruel to animals?

 

When we had the terrible floods last year, i opened my doors up for a litter of kittens and two other cats, along with my own two cats because the shelter flooded. But because i'm not a vegetarian, does that make me cruel to animals?

 

Exactly, no

 

Those are some good arguments. I never thought about the eskimos and other tribes in different countries. The indigenous people have to make clothes out of whatever is availible.

What about the African people who make drums out of animal skin? Are you going to go and tell them they're evil and that their culture is wrong?

 

No

[Ioana]

aaarait,I am against animal cruelty,animal testing ,fur and LEATHER,it still is what someone stripped off an animal.

I read someone saying it's a side product of the meat industry? Oh so then your vegan self agrees with killing them for meat too

 

Anyway,what I do not agree is this very trendy neo-illuministic thingy where one thinks it soo cool to be a vegan. Can I ask why you decided to do that?

 

As much as I am against animal cruelty,the purpose of animals,from biblical times has been food.

You think the human body is built to function 100% without meat proteins? Right....eat beans instead,it's the same thing

 

I for one could never be a 100% vegan,I cannot go without meat,and don't even dare to say I am encouraging animal cruelty because I've been supporting PETA for the past 5 years,and if you cannot grasp how logics help you distinguish certain things,it's not my fault

[Niki27]

We were in the bush and all I had was a steering wheel lock device in my car. You know.. One of those long metal bars.. I held in over the dying rabbits head but I couldn't bring myself to do it. My thought at the time was "What if I hit it, but it doesn't die and I only make it suffer worse? Could I bring myself to hit it over the head again? And again? Until it is dead?"

I also had to think of the fact my very impressionable (10 year old at the time) niece was watching every move I made.

 

I still wouldn't be able to do it now.

 

What would you have done?

 

Well... I once found a cat that had been hitten by a car, I brought it to the closest vet and paid for the euthanasy because she said it was bleeding inside and nothing could be done (very similar story to wendi's). Of course, if you're in the middle of nowhere, that's more difficult. I've never been in the situation before so I THINK I would hit the animal on the head or break its neck but again... I'm not sure I would do it properly either the first time. I guess I would just go on until it's dead, even if it sounds barbaric. It would be extremely hard of course... I don't even eat rabbits (nor horses) because I think they're too cute I would probably cry for 3 days (just like after the cat thing) but I would never let an animal suffer for nothing so...

 

As for your niece... I guess I would have told her to go and not watch, and I think that if you explain things to kids they understand a lot better than we think... I'm sure if you had told here you were doing this as an act of compassion she would have understood.

 

Slightly different topic but there's a link. I bring food to shelters here, and one of my friends administrates one. He once asked me if I wanted to join the administration board as a volunteer, and I declined saying his shelter used euthanasy and I was firmly against it. He replied that in theory, he was against it too, but that if they didn't do it, if they didn't put the weakest/oldest/sickest dogs to sleep, they would never be able to feed them all, nor welcome new abandonned animals, and that, eventually, more would starve or be tortured. I still find it hard to accept it, though I know he's partly right. I wondered what you thought of it?

[Kelzy]

I wouldn't be able to bash an animal to death. Like Kelzy said, I have no clue how to do it in such a way that it would definately work, and it's just icky, especially with Kobiii (I assume) there...

But yes, it would be less cruel, if you could do it properly...

 

Yes, it was Kobiii with me. We discussed it just before and I asked her how it affected her. She said she thought we did what was the best thing and that there really wasn't anything else we could've done. She was glad I didn't hit it over the head repeatedly to put it out of it's misery for the same reason I said. What if I didn't do it right and inflicted more pain?

It has affected the way she treats animals. She dotes over my 4 cats and the 2 dogs she has at home.

Oh wow. I think (I have no idea, please correct me) there is quite a big difference to the way you see rabbits and foxes to here in Australia. Like, our government is actively trying to wipe them out. It's quite sick really, if they live in their native country they have a right to live and to be at least a little cared about, but not here. Of course, they're killing the native wildlife and such, but it's still crazy to think. Difficult topic really.

That's true, they are considered a pest here.

So I was thinking at work today

Did it hurt?

• In Asia, the tradition of not eating meat extends back much farther - its origins can be traced to eastern religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism. Buddhists believe that after death, the soul of a human may inhabit an animal; therefore, it naturally follows that they would abstain from killing animals for food.

I'd like to question that Buddhist belief. Just for a moment. I have huge respect for the faith and it is one I feel most akin too, but animals kill each other for food every single day. So, the belief is somewhat twisted. It's saying as humans we are not to eat animals, but when we are reincarnated as animals we are allowed to eat other animals because it's nature?

I realise not all animals are carnivores. In fact, the animals we do eat are mostly *looks it up* herbivores.. But still... this belief doesn't say that we should not eat meat because we are reincarnated as specific animals.

And coming back as a herbivore doesn't guarantee a carnivore will not eat you.

 

 

I just find that interesting.. (don't stone me )

[Niki27]

There's no agreement about vegetarianism in buddhism... In theory, what's asked is to respect life of conscient creatures, so buddhists should be vegetarian, but it seems most aren't, and keep eating fishes and meat.

 

I don't get this saying: as humans we shouldn't eat animals... but animals eat animals. Have humans stopped being animals? What biology lesson did I miss?

[Kelzy]

As for your niece... I guess I would have told her to go and not watch, and I think that if you explain things to kids they understand a lot better than we think... I'm sure if you had told here you were doing this as an act of compassion she would have understood.

*asks her*

She knew I was going to do it as an act of compassion. I did explain it. She went back to the car and wasn't meant to be watching while I was attempting to suck it up and be brave to put it out of it's misery.

 

But anyway, in hindsight, I would still do the same thing. Had I of been in the city and close to a vets I would have definitely taken it there and probably, like Oakie Doke pointed out, been firstly asked if it was my pet and when I said no they would just think "Why did you bother?"

It's sad, but true.

Slightly different topic but there's a link. I bring food to shelters here, and one of my friends administrates one. He once asked me if I wanted to join the administration board as a volunteer, and I declined saying his shelter used euthanasy and I was firmly against it. He replied that in theory, he was against it too, but that if they didn't do it, if they didn't put the weakest/oldest/sickest dogs to sleep, they would never be able to feed them all, nor welcome new abandonned animals, and that, eventually, more would starve or be tortured. I still find it hard to accept it, though I know he's partly right. I wondered what you thought of it?

Yeah, I can't really put my thoughts into words over that. I think it's wrong to euthanize an animal because it's taking up space. If it's quality of life had diminished and it was virtually helpless then I can see the reasoning. For the greater good, etc..

But saying that doesn't mean I think it's fair, or right, or just.

 

Sometimes this world isn't pretty.

[Kelzy]

There's no agreement about vegetarianism in buddhism... In theory, what's asked is to respect life of conscient creatures, so buddhists should be vegetarian, but it seems most aren't, and keep eating fishes and meat.

That makes more sense now.

 

I don't get this saying: as humans we shouldn't eat animals... but animals eat animals. Have humans stopped being animals? What biology lesson did I miss?

oops..

Sorry, we can return to being animals now..

 

 

You know what I meant!!

[Wendi]

 

 

Oh wow. I think (I have no idea, please correct me) there is quite a big difference to the way you see rabbits and foxes to here in Australia. Like, our government is actively trying to wipe them out. It's quite sick really, if they live in their native country they have a right to live and to be at least a little cared about, but not here. Of course, they're killing the native wildlife and such, but it's still crazy to think. Difficult topic really.

 

 

But-but, what about the spider? Do you give them a leaf back in place of it? Vegetarian spiders!

 

 

Our landowners tend to treat rabbits and foxes like pests too - but I can not

see an animal in pain. Four of my children were in the car, and the boys

suggested running it over to put it out its misery quickly, but the girls voted

for the vet. I could not bring myself to run it over, so one of the boys offered to take it out of sight, and put it out its misery quickly. I decided against this as I didn't want them feeling bad afterwards - so we opted for the vet.

 

As for the spider - they get lots of insects here, and most of them I don't see, so I have no problem rescuing the odd fly - and I have never seen an under-weight spider here yet!! I find it really disturbing listening to the fly buzz, desperately trying to free themselves!!

[Kelzy]

Maybe the spider was marinating the fly??

[Wendi]

Maybe the spider was marinating the fly??

 

Not in my house its not!!!

[Kelzy]

Not in my house its not!!!

You breed some cruel spiders and useless flies in your house.

[Wendi]

You breed some cruel spiders and useless flies in your house.

 

I have lots of spiders - and when a fly lands in their webs they come

bolting out of their hiding place and grab the poor insect!! Its fascinating

to watch - if they spider already has the insect I don't intervene - but

its amazing the speed they move, and the way they "tie" up their "food"!!

I also have to save the odd bat - when they fall down my chimney - I

hate them lying there in the grate - so I have to hang them on my jumper

and keep my hand over them to warm them up, then I let them go outside.

I love living in the country - there are so many interesting things happen!!

[Niki27]

oops..

Sorry, we can return to being animals now..

 

 

You know what I meant!!

 

I know know But maybe that's where our differences come from in terms of opinions on vegetarianism and stuff. I've always thought of men as animals, not even special animals, just animals. We might actually be worse than most known species

 

I will rescue as many animals as I can if it's in my power, and I will never kill for the sake of killing, but if a mosquito comes and lands on my arm and bites me, I will have no regret smashing it with my palm. Nor will I think twice before eating meat, because I consider these things the rules of the game: animals eat animals, and animals defend themselves when attacked by other animals. I don't see that as cruelty, I see that as nature, and instinct.

 

It's all about nuance, I'd say: if you kill an animal, eat its flesh, use its fur to dress up and its bones to do jewelry, that's fine for me. If you kill it just for the fur, that's wrong.

 

Again, I wanna stress I do understand why some people'd rather be vegetarians, and I do agree we can improve slaughtering techniques and pay more attention to the wellfare of farmed animals, but we've done a lot of progress compared to what used to be done. The only problem I have with some of the above-stated opinions is actually when meat-eaters are almost accused of cruelty to animals, do you know what I mean?

[Kelzy]

I know know But maybe that's where our differences come from in terms of opinions on vegetarianism and stuff. I've always thought of men as animals, not even special animals, just animals. We might actually be worse than most known species

We're definitely the most destructive that I can think of.

I will rescue as many animals as I can if it's in my power, and I will never kill for the sake of killing, but if a mosquito comes and lands on my arm and bites me, I will have no regret smashing it with my palm. Nor will I think twice before eating meat, because I consider these things the rules of the game: animals eat animals, and animals defend themselves when attacked by other animals. I don't see that as cruelty, I see that as nature, and instinct.

Mosquitoes are pests. I can't think of their purpose.

And it is all part of the game.

It's all about nuance, I'd say: if you kill an animal, eat its flesh, use its fur to dress up and its bones to do jewelry, that's fine for me. If you kill it just for the fur, that's wrong.

Again, I wanna stress I do understand why some people'd rather be vegetarians, and I do agree we can improve slaughtering techniques and pay more attention to the wellfare of farmed animals, but we've done a lot of progress compared to what used to be done. The only problem I have with some of the above-stated opinions is actually when meat-eaters are almost accused of cruelty to animals, do you know what I mean?

Absolutely. I agree with this because I am the same. Although, I wouldn't wear a fur coat just because I could. It would still be for the matter of survival.

 

About killing the animal and using it for all purposes; I have a strong friendship with an Aboriginal lady, who's been like a mother to me, and I can imagine her agreeing with what you said. If you are going to kill an animal for survival purposes, then don't just eat the meat.

 

So, it makes me wonder.

Is it more acceptable for an Aborigine, in outback Australia, away from civilisation, where there are no pre-packaged meats or electricity to keep warm to kill an animal as a form of survival?

And would it be more acceptable if someone stopped buying meat and started farming and killing their own stock for feed instead?

 

Does it become acceptable or unacceptable depending on your situation, location, race, cultural beliefs or upbringing? etc etc..

[Niki27]

Tricky question... I guess the "good thing" about our consumption societies is that everything is considered to be money . The meat you buy in supermarkets comes from animals that have been "used" for different purposes: flesh, leather, fur, even the bones are reduced to powder to serve different purposes. So we're not that far away from the aboriginal ways.

 

I know it's different in other parts of the world: like when they kill seadogs just for the fur, elephants for the ivory, or sharks just for their uh... "that thing they have on their back"

 

These things have to be opposed for sure. But I don't think our ways of farming are so terrible.

[Oakie Doke]

Anyway,what I do not agree is this very trendy neo-illuministic thingy where one thinks it soo cool to be a vegan. Can I ask why you decided to do that?

 

I know, I hate that. I also hate those stupid environment tshirts.

 

Slightly different topic but there's a link. I bring food to shelters here, and one of my friends administrates one. He once asked me if I wanted to join the administration board as a volunteer, and I declined saying his shelter used euthanasy and I was firmly against it. He replied that in theory, he was against it too, but that if they didn't do it, if they didn't put the weakest/oldest/sickest dogs to sleep, they would never be able to feed them all, nor welcome new abandonned animals, and that, eventually, more would starve or be tortured. I still find it hard to accept it, though I know he's partly right. I wondered what you thought of it?

 

I don't see how he is physically capable of doing it, surely he must get attached to them? I volunteer at a shelter, and I think now finally there are no dogs that have been there since I started (and that's about 2 years), but there were some who had been there for over a year at least, and they were the sweetest most brilliant dogs that had just been incredibly unlucky that everyone who came was looking for a slightly prettier dog, a slightly uglier dog, a slightly more protective dog, a slightly younger dog, a slightly older dog, I don't know, but they most definately did find their perfect owners, who found their perfect companions. Heck there's one lady who comes in every year or two and asks to look at the dogs who have been there the longest - She took Dixie last year, who'd been there at least two years, just because she doesn't like strange men, this lady was like "no, no, that's fine, I just wont invite any men over anymore"

Wait, what was I talking about? Let's get back on topic - yes, well, like I said, sterilising, vaccinating and euthanising dogs for 30 days of chance is a waste of money too, and they could help more dogs in the long run if they spent any extra money on building more enclosures. Food and whatnot they get donated by lovely people like you anyway.

 

I'd like to question that Buddhist belief. Just for a moment. I have huge respect for the faith and it is one I feel most akin too, but animals kill each other for food every single day. So, the belief is somewhat twisted. It's saying as humans we are not to eat animals, but when we are reincarnated as animals we are allowed to eat other animals because it's nature?

I realise not all animals are carnivores. In fact, the animals we do eat are mostly *looks it up* herbivores.. But still... this belief doesn't say that we should not eat meat because we are reincarnated as specific animals.

And coming back as a herbivore doesn't guarantee a carnivore will not eat you.

 

 

I just find that interesting.. (don't stone me )

 

Your right. It really doesn't make sence. But buddists aren't all vegetarians, some just use this as a reason, and some christians use some things out of the bible as a reason too. But humans are smarter and have morals (but if our souls go into animals, why don't they?? ), and if your loved one died and you believed their soul was going into an animal, you wouldn't want to accidentally kill them again, would you? But maybe if they were reincarnated as a slug or something you'd be doing them a favour ... getting that phase out of the way to become something a bit more elegant

 

Also, that video isn't loading for me, but I can see what it is. Have you seen the one where the alligator and the lions fight over the baby gazelle or what ever it is? *goes to find*

 

Haha, watch this:

This should be it, but my computer is being crappy and not playing it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EyCK2MDfdc

 

I don't get this saying: as humans we shouldn't eat animals... but animals eat animals. Have humans stopped being animals? What biology lesson did I miss?

 

Because we have obviously much higher intelligence and inherent morals. We don't fight each other to the death for trying to steal each other's girlfriends (okay, well maybe some people do, but it's generally frowned upon ). Humans stopped being animals and falling under the same guidelines as animals when we became so much more developed, and also when we started treating animals in ways that animals don't treat each other (owning them, using them for our pleasure, etc)

 

Not in my house its not!!!

 

 

I have lots of spiders - and when a fly lands in their webs they come

bolting out of their hiding place and grab the poor insect!! Its fascinating

to watch - if they spider already has the insect I don't intervene - but

its amazing the speed they move, and the way they "tie" up their "food"!!

I also have to save the odd bat - when they fall down my chimney - I

hate them lying there in the grate - so I have to hang them on my jumper

and keep my hand over them to warm them up, then I let them go outside.

I love living in the country - there are so many interesting things happen!!

 

I do too, it is quite interesting.

And that is so awesome - jealous!

 

I do agree we can improve slaughtering techniques and pay more attention to the wellfare of farmed animals, but we've done a lot of progress compared to what used to be done.

 

In some respects, but there's a lot of "progress" that I wouldn't call "progress"...

eg.

>>

:S

[Kelzy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EyCK2MDfdc

 

watch the rest of it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnixDMMRvY4

That other vid was of a lion attacking a zebra.. But there's plenty of other ones there and I'm sure you got the gist of it anyway...

[Oakie Doke]

Mosquitoes are pests. I can't think of their purpose.

And it is all part of the game.

 

So what is the purpose of rabbits in Australia? What are they?

 

About killing the animal and using it for all purposes; I have a strong friendship with an Aboriginal lady, who's been like a mother to me, and I can imagine her agreeing with what you said. If you are going to kill an animal for survival purposes, then don't just eat the meat.

 

So, it makes me wonder.

Is it more acceptable for an Aborigine, in outback Australia, away from civilisation, where there are no pre-packaged meats or electricity to keep warm to kill an animal as a form of survival?

And would it be more acceptable if someone stopped buying meat and started farming and killing their own stock for feed instead?

 

Does it become acceptable or unacceptable depending on your situation, location, race, cultural beliefs or upbringing? etc etc..

 

It does, to an extent.

 

Aborigine away from civilisation - of course, but if they do it right. Now I can't remember if this is from my head or not, but somewhere in the back of my mind I remember some kind of war between governments and aboriginals trying to maintain traditions, and they were killing animals in a way that doesn't minimise their suffering. That was so many years ago I can't remember what the issue was, I guess going around using spears and stuff, and then there were animals running around with spears in them, but I'm pretty sure these were people not using it to live, just to try and get back to their roots or something. What do you think about that? I mean, there are certain animal welfare laws in Australia, and they weren't following them. But aboriginals are great in terms of using all the parts, and understanding the balance of the ecosystem and everything, so that part's fine to me.

 

If someone wants to farm their own animals and they do it in a way that is 100% providing for their welfare and everything, that would be GREAT, if only the whole world would go like that! That would be the perfect way of living in my eyes. But I especially wouldn't be able to eat them because I'd get totally attached to them, and the whole time you'd just be like "omg, omg, I saw this exact cow running round outside yesterday and now I'm eating it."

 

Cultural beleifs and upbringing - no, I don't think so. If someone was raised to think it was alright to murder/rape people or something, would it be okay for them to go around doing that when they grow up? I mean, it all depends, on the beliefs we're talking about, and their situation, but if they belief they have a right to cause suffering to animals, they just don't.

 

Poor people, people living in underdeveloped countries, in poverty, whatever, well, if we're talking the actual eating of meat, meat is much more expensive than anything else, to produce and store and everything anyway, but if they don't have access to varied diets and nutrients and everything we have, theres nothing wrong with it. But no matter how disadvantaged you are, the animals still have the right to be treated properly, and if they can't do that for them, then no, they shouldn't be keeping them. Hmm, how come I'm talking about farming in this paragraph? I guess I covered hunting in the aboriginal one

 

Tricky question... I guess the "good thing" about our consumption societies is that everything is considered to be money . The meat you buy in supermarkets comes from animals that have been "used" for different purposes: flesh, leather, fur, even the bones are reduced to powder to serve different purposes. So we're not that far away from the aboriginal ways.

 

I know it's different in other parts of the world: like when they kill seadogs just for the fur, elephants for the ivory, or sharks just for their uh... "that thing they have on their back"

 

These things have to be opposed for sure. But I don't think our ways of farming are so terrible.

 

That's true

[Oakie Doke]

watch the rest of it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnixDMMRvY4

That other vid was of a lion attacking a zebra.. But there's plenty of other ones there and I'm sure you got the gist of it anyway...

 

I told you my computer wasn't playing videos! I restarted and now it's working That's the video I meant, did mine not show the whole thing? I love that when the buffalos come and chase off the lions, and that the fricking baby managed to survive that

[Kelzy]

So what is the purpose of rabbits in Australia? What are they?

IMO, The quantity we have of them is the actual pest, not the animal itself.

Aborigine away from civilisation - of course, but if they do it right. Now I can't remember if this is from my head or not, but somewhere in the back of my mind I remember some kind of war between governments and aboriginals trying to maintain traditions, and they were killing animals in a way that doesn't minimise their suffering. That was so many years ago I can't remember what the issue was, I guess going around using spears and stuff, and then there were animals running around with spears in them, but I'm pretty sure these were people not using it to live, just to try and get back to their roots or something. What do you think about that? I mean, there are certain animal welfare laws in Australia, and they weren't following them. But aboriginals are great in terms of using all the parts, and understanding the balance of the ecosystem and everything, so that part's fine to me.

That's wrong. You just hit the nail on the head. That is animal cruelty. And it's not something my friend would like to hear about.

[Oakie Doke]

IMO, The quantity we have of them is the actual pest, not the animal itself.

 

But even if there were less of them they wouldn't be serving a purpose in the ecosystem.

Ahhh the pests issue messes with my brain

 

That's wrong. You just hit the nail on the head. That is animal cruelty. And it's not something my friend would like to hear about.

 

Yes, it is wrong. I only heard vaguely of it years and years ago And it looks like I lied.

 

Read this: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/JCULRev/2004/8.html

It's incredibly long and detailed, but it's really comprehensive, and really interesting. There'd be no way for me to cut out the important points for you, pretty much every sentence is import to the whole thing. Sorry But it's really interesting. I knew basically nothing of what it says.

 

(*assuming you've gone and actually read it*)

So, the issue is the cultural way they kill the animals, and obviously they're picking out a few worst-case scenarios there, but they're not lying or anything, so it's pretty shocking. And it sounds like it is something your friend would hear about. It sounds like, by the article, but it's obviously from a slightly biased view, that animal welfare never comes into their psyche, I would be so interested to know what your friend thinks about it.

[Shaza!]

I love how you always bring him into a conversation

 

I have a reputation to live up to

 

I didn't know that. That almost explains my friend's obsession with the guy. No, but he's still really weird.

 

 

Nooo he's a sweetheart.

He's been a vegetarian for 19 years.

[Kelzy]

Yes, it is wrong. I only heard vaguely of it years and years ago And it looks like I lied.

 

Read this: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/JCULRev/2004/8.html

It's incredibly long and detailed, but it's really comprehensive, and really interesting. There'd be no way for me to cut out the important points for you, pretty much every sentence is import to the whole thing. Sorry But it's really interesting. I knew basically nothing of what it says.

 

(*assuming you've gone and actually read it*)

So, the issue is the cultural way they kill the animals, and obviously they're picking out a few worst-case scenarios there, but they're not lying or anything, so it's pretty shocking. And it sounds like it is something your friend would hear about. It sounds like, by the article, but it's obviously from a slightly biased view, that animal welfare never comes into their psyche, I would be so interested to know what your friend thinks about it.

I'd be interested too.. I might print it off and send it to her.

And you are right about them being worst-case scenarios. It's rather shocking to read when you know that there's obviously other ways available now. But they are talking traditional.

Like I said earlier, I'm understanding of the (as they put it) spiritual, sustenance or cultural dimensions but I think it needs to be a combination of those 3 reasons rather than just one. And surely there's a point where common sense comes into it and you say "Bludgeoning a turtle to death to ensure the water is replenished is a myth." Just like tossing salt over your shoulder when you spill some.. that's a less extreme comparison.. But there are possibly alot of traditions they have listed that are a myth and could be taught through stories rather than example.. Maybe 600 years ago that worked, but it doesn't mean it does now.. etc..

 

IDK.. it's 3am.. I'll look at it again tomorrow

[Oakie Doke]

Nooo he's a sweetheart.

He's been a vegetarian for 19 years.

 

That may be, but he's still strange

My friend used to try to convince me otherwise, she sent me videos and podcasts and whatnot, and I clicked on one to give him a chance and he appeared to be trying to rape some random dog in hawaii. Because that's normal.

 

I'd be interested too.. I might print it off and send it to her.

And you are right about them being worst-case scenarios. It's rather shocking to read when you know that there's obviously other ways available now. But they are talking traditional.

Like I said earlier, I'm understanding of the (as they put it) spiritual, sustenance or cultural dimensions but I think it needs to be a combination of those 3 reasons rather than just one. And surely there's a point where common sense comes into it and you say "Bludgeoning a turtle to death to ensure the water is replenished is a myth." Just like tossing salt over your shoulder when you spill some.. that's a less extreme comparison.. But there are possibly alot of traditions they have listed that are a myth and could be taught through stories rather than example.. Maybe 600 years ago that worked, but it doesn't mean it does now.. etc..

 

IDK.. it's 3am.. I'll look at it again tomorrow

 

Exactly! I understand they have a spiritual connection to it that I can't understand, but it doesn't make them stupid, they must be able to see that it couldn't be necessary. I know their not just blindly torturing animals, but like with the dugongs ... I'm sure any sensible person should be able to look at that and say, "well, I know we've been doing it like this for ages, but don't you think maybe it would make more sense if we just ... killed it straight away?".

 

But what was also interesting was that it said they expect aboriginal communities to be as wary of animal welfare movements as they have been of conservation restrictions - I thought they were all for sustainability? It said some groups hadn't accepted dugong hunting restrictions... I know if western society hadn't ever interfered, then they would have been able to maintain the populations properly, and that they don't have the science to be able to see the exact figures and stuff for themselves, but you'd think if someone is saying "right, if you keep killing this many, they'll die out", they'd listen? I dunno... I need to sleep as well