P.E.T.A People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

[Niki27]

I don't see how he is physically capable of doing it, surely he must get attached to them?

 

Wait, what was I talking about? Let's get back on topic - yes, well, like I said, sterilising, vaccinating and euthanising dogs for 30 days of chance is a waste of money too, and they could help more dogs in the long run if they spent any extra money on building more enclosures. Food and whatnot they get donated by lovely people like you anyway.

 

Well I don't think that you can get attached to animals in big shelters like the one I'm talking about. In the summer days (the worst period in terms of abandons) I think they get like 10 new dogs a day, let alone cats and horses, and rabbits and the list is long Moreover, they don't have enough money to vaccinate/sterilise all animals. They only do it when they get adopted, and the new family actually pays these costs for two reasons (I'm telling you this because at first I thought adoptions should be free but he explained why they made people pay and it's quite logical):

 

1) the shelter can't afford it

2) it makes people think twice to have to pay some 50 euro to adopt the animal, that way, they don't just come into the shelter, find some dog cute, get him, and realize two days later it was a bad decision. (Well it still happens but the money issue really make them think twice )

 

Because we have obviously much higher intelligence and inherent morals. We don't fight each other to the death for trying to steal each other's girlfriends (okay, well maybe some people do, but it's generally frowned upon ). Humans stopped being animals and falling under the same guidelines as animals when we became so much more developed, and also when we started treating animals in ways that animals don't treat each other (owning them, using them for our pleasure, etc)

 

See, I totally disagree with that, and start to wonder how well you know your fellow humans

 

a) Animal intelligence might be different from ours, but they have skills even the most brilliant human will never have.

 

b) Inherent morals?? We do kill ourselves for money, or power, or in some God's name. When "murders" happen between animals, it's always a matter of survival. Moreover, animals kill quick... I can't think of any species who invented a million ways of torture but ours.

And you cannot say we have better morals and add "we started treating animals in ways that animals don't treat each other (owning them, using them for our pleasure, etc)" That makes us inferior to them, imo, and I think you're contradicting yourself big time here, sorry

[Kelzy]

PLEASE WATCH THIS...IT'S NOT GROSS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT...

 

BUT I MUST HAVE CRIED FOR 20 MINUTES REMEMBERING THIS...

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8EYocy_DN60

And sorry, I forgot to quote you and say I watched this and it is very sad.

I really think it's wrong to harm an animal "for fun" or whatever reason those sicko's do it for.

[annabelle]

aaarait,I am against animal cruelty,animal testing ,fur and LEATHER,it still is what someone stripped off an animal.

I read someone saying it's a side product of the meat industry? Oh so then your vegan self agrees with killing them for meat too

 

Anyway,what I do not agree is this very trendy neo-illuministic thingy where one thinks it soo cool to be a vegan. Can I ask why you decided to do that?

 

As much as I am against animal cruelty,the purpose of animals,from biblical times has been food.

You think the human body is built to function 100% without meat proteins? Right....eat beans instead,it's the same thing

 

I for one could never be a 100% vegan,I cannot go without meat,and don't even dare to say I am encouraging animal cruelty because I've been supporting PETA for the past 5 years,and if you cannot grasp how logics help you distinguish certain things,it's not my fault

 

That was me. But I didn't say I agree with it. I just said that leather normally is, or at least should be, a side product of the meat industry, and that I personally find this different from fur. And once again I repeat- I do not agree with, nor support the meat industry, and I am a vegetarian BUT not because that would be so cool, and so new-age, or whatever. I don't eat meat simply because I really don't like the taste of it (never did, when I was a young girl my mom used to hide the meat into the smash potato:naughty:).

 

And there's a difference between being a vegetarian or being a vegan. I myself could also never be a vegan, because I like eggs, cheese, all milk products in general way too much to give up on them. I've been a veggie for quite some time now, and I've never had any problems with my health because of that. So I guess that meat isn't that essential for humans- at least not for me. But I let everyone make their own decisions. I don't eat meat, someone does...it's fine by me. I'm not gonna say to someone that he/she's not allowed to eat it, if that's what you think I was trying to say in my first post. I got this feeling that you think I'm forcing people to become vegetarians, but that I support the meat industry by thinking that "wearing leather is ok coz it's just a side product". Believe me, it's not like that.

[rockinbabzz]

Because I don't see the link between cruelty to animals and eating meat!

 

Have you stopped drinking milk? Look at the conditions cows live in in milking farms...

Have you stopped eating eggs? Look at these chicks piled up on one another in small cages...

Have you given up on leather?

 

If you want to be a veggie, I'm fine with this, but I don't understand why meat-eaters should be labbelled as people who don't like animals or don't care. There are, imo, better things to do to prevent cruelty to animals than stop eating them.

 

I was actually referring to BonjourMika, I mean, being a member of PETA, starting a thread about it, being all 'oh I support animalrights' and then still eating meat... I don't get that, sorry

 

And to answer your questions: I drink milk and eat eggs and cheese, we get it from a biological farm where the animals have a good life. I don't think that you shouldn't 'use' animals at all, a cow doesn't have to suffer to give milk and a chicken gives eggs just out of herself without having to live in a horrible little cage. I wouldn't even dream of eating eggs from the supermarket.

And I don't wear leather of course.

[PhotoJenic]

I couldn't do that either.

I once saw a car hit a rabbit and I pulled over and turned around and went back to check if it had died. It was still alive, but barely. There was no way it would survive. I so badly wanted to put it out of it's misery. But couldn't bring myself to do it. So I sat there with it for 15 minutes as it passed away. I had my niece with me. I believe that she learnt something very valuable that day.

 

We were in the bush and all I had was a steering wheel lock device in my car. You know.. One of those long metal bars.. I held in over the dying rabbits head but I couldn't bring myself to do it. My thought at the time was "What if I hit it, but it doesn't die and I only make it suffer worse? Could I bring myself to hit it over the head again? And again? Until it is dead?"

I also had to think of the fact my very impressionable (10 year old at the time) niece was watching every move I made.

 

I still wouldn't be able to do it now.

 

What would you have done?

 

Well... I once found a cat that had been hitten by a car, I brought it to the closest vet and paid for the euthanasy because she said it was bleeding inside and nothing could be done (very similar story to wendi's). Of course, if you're in the middle of nowhere, that's more difficult. I've never been in the situation before so I THINK I would hit the animal on the head or break its neck but again... I'm not sure I would do it properly either the first time. I guess I would just go on until it's dead, even if it sounds barbaric. It would be extremely hard of course... I don't even eat rabbits (nor horses) because I think they're too cute I would probably cry for 3 days (just like after the cat thing) but I would never let an animal suffer for nothing so...

 

As for your niece... I guess I would have told her to go and not watch, and I think that if you explain things to kids they understand a lot better than we think... I'm sure if you had told here you were doing this as an act of compassion she would have understood.

 

Yes, it was Kobiii with me. We discussed it just before and I asked her how it affected her. She said she thought we did what was the best thing and that there really wasn't anything else we could've done. She was glad I didn't hit it over the head repeatedly to put it out of it's misery for the same reason I said. What if I didn't do it right and inflicted more pain?

It has affected the way she treats animals. She dotes over my 4 cats and the 2 dogs she has at home.

)

 

After reading this... :-/

 

Imagine if you were a bunny and you had just been hit by a car... sure you're suffering but would you....

1. Want to die alone?

2. Have someone stop and try to comfort you like what Kelz did?

3. Have your last image being a human with a metal pole winding up to bash you in the head?

 

I'd choose number 2 because what if you're injured but it's not actually a life or death situation? I wouldn't want someone coming to 'put me out of my misery' if I have a chance to survive.

 

Just my opinion.

[BonjourMika1990]

I was actually referring to BonjourMika, I mean, being a member of PETA, starting a thread about it, being all 'oh I support animalrights' and then still eating meat... I don't get that, sorry

 

And to answer your questions: I drink milk and eat eggs and cheese, we get it from a biological farm where the animals have a good life. I don't think that you shouldn't 'use' animals at all, a cow doesn't have to suffer to give milk and a chicken gives eggs just out of herself without having to live in a horrible little cage. I wouldn't even dream of eating eggs from the supermarket.

And I don't wear leather of course.

 

I did also say that I was in the process of becoming a vegetarian...

 

It's not an overnight thing:wink2:

 

For me... its been a looong road.

 

It's definatly not hypocritical because I'm not just gonna end my membership and my involvment because It's hard for me to cut out meat...they say to go slow into it, because otherwise you screw up your imune system... & I HAVE, SEVERAL TIMES LOL

BUT, MEMBERS OF PETA AREN'T ALL NECESSARILY VEGAN... PEOPLE WHO DONATE, DONATE BECAUSE THEY LOVE ANIMALS AND WANT TO DO WHAT THEY CAN TO HELP...That's what I do at this point.

[Oakie Doke]

Well I don't think that you can get attached to animals in big shelters like the one I'm talking about. In the summer days (the worst period in terms of abandons) I think they get like 10 new dogs a day, let alone cats and horses, and rabbits and the list is long Moreover, they don't have enough money to vaccinate/sterilise all animals. They only do it when they get adopted, and the new family actually pays these costs for two reasons

 

Okay, I didn't realise they did it the other way around. I only know of places where the first thing they do when new animals come in is to vaccinate and sterilise them. They first go to the vet before they ever come into the shelter, and they first go into quarantine cages before they can be sold, obviously to stop them spreading anything to each other. And they sterilise them before putting them out because a lot of people don't want to neuter their pets, and regardless of if they get a voucher/appointment for what they pay for, they wont actually go and get it done. And you can't do anything about that with animals that are too young, and it sucks, but like 80% of people will never take up the offer to come back to get their discounted surgery.

This is the problem I see with the system this shelter is using, but it's what they have to do to afford ethanasing the animals I suppose. Hmm .. unless they did something like ... someone picks and animal, they send it off to get neutered, and then they pick it up the next day - is that how it works?

 

See, I totally disagree with that, and start to wonder how well you know your fellow humans

 

a) Animal intelligence might be different from ours, but they have skills even the most brilliant human will never have.

 

b) Inherent morals?? We do kill ourselves for money, or power, or in some God's name. When "murders" happen between animals, it's always a matter of survival. Moreover, animals kill quick... I can't think of any species who invented a million ways of torture but ours.

And you cannot say we have better morals and add "we started treating animals in ways that animals don't treat each other (owning them, using them for our pleasure, etc)" That makes us inferior to them, imo, and I think you're contradicting yourself big time here, sorry

 

I'm not saying all humans are morally superior to animals, if that was the case we certainly wouldn't be sitting here discussing animal welfare for one thing. But we are capable of being so, and that's what makes us different from them, and that is why humans don't fall under the same category as animals when it comes to what is right and what is wrong, regardless of what is 'natural'.

 

Yes, a select few of the human population kill each other for pointless reasons, but the greater society has the ethics to see that it's wrong and punishes them for it. IMO there's something wrong in the heads of people who can kill each other or whatever, and I guess it's that there's something wrong with the set of morals they should have. We are intelligent and can rationalise situations and think things through, that's why we have better morals. We can think "Okay, maybe I shouldn't kill this guy that has angered me, because he has a wife and kids that will miss him, and he has a right to live his life through without me cutting it short for him". Obviously not all humans can think like that, but I'm only talking about normal people here.

 

Animals aren't capable of thinking things through like that. My dog for example. When he sees my bird he sees something that's moving around and making noise and is something that he can bite, and would be quite exciting to try and bite. He couldn't begin to consider that the bird is a living creature that can think and feel, that he would prefer to not be eaten, that it would hurt him to be bitten, and that he would not enjoy it, or that I have a connection to him, and that I would be sad if he would hurt him. You can train a dog not to bite a bird when he sees it, but you can't ever explain why it shouldn't.

 

That is how we are sufficiently different to animals to not fall under the same category as them. You can't tell or expect a wild predator to make sure they kill their prey in the fasted least painful way possible, but you most certainly can tell a human to do so when they kill something.

And in terms of vegetarianism, I can look at a chicken and rationalise and understand that that chicken has a life with it's own purpose and things that it does or thinks about, and that it would most definately prefer if I didn't cut that life short, especially when I have no real need to. That's enough reason for me.

 

And to answer your questions: I drink milk and eat eggs and cheese, we get it from a biological farm where the animals have a good life. I don't think that you shouldn't 'use' animals at all, a cow doesn't have to suffer to give milk and a chicken gives eggs just out of herself without having to live in a horrible little cage. I wouldn't even dream of eating eggs from the supermarket.

And I don't wear leather of course.

 

Exactly. If you can garuntee they lived proper lives and weren't over exploited I can't see why there's a huge problem with milk and eggs except that they both kill the male babies ...

But I know of vegans who class themselves as vegans, but eat the eggs of their pet chickens. It would be a total waste to not eat them, huh? But I know other vegans who are just repulsed by the thought of eating the 'period' of another animal, and wouldn't eat them no matter what kind of chicken they came from

 

Imagine if you were a bunny and you had just been hit by a car... sure you're suffering but would you....

1. Want to die alone?

2. Have someone stop and try to comfort you like what Kelz did?

3. Have your last image being a human with a metal pole winding up to bash you in the head?

 

I'd choose number 2 because what if you're injured but it's not actually a life or death situation? I wouldn't want someone coming to 'put me out of my misery' if I have a chance to survive.

 

Just my opinion.

 

I'd hate to be the one to say it, but is it possible that being touched by a human and having no power to stop it when you have never had any human contact in your life might be stressfull for the rabbit? I'm no wild rabbit, and I have no idea how their minds work, but I dunno, I just wonder if the only reason it acts calm is because it's scared out of it's mind. *wonders if anyone has done research into the effect of human contact to wild animals*

 

BUT - good point that you couldn't be completely sure it wouldn't be able to survive. It might just be a bit sore and be resting, and then acting all 'end of the world'-like because it's so scared of you. I have no idea, I'm just brain storming

[Niki27]

This is the problem I see with the system this shelter is using, but it's what they have to do to afford ethanasing the animals I suppose. Hmm .. unless they did something like ... someone picks and animal, they send it off to get neutered, and then they pick it up the next day - is that how it works?

 

System is:

1) they get a new animal, it's checked by the vet and put into quarantaine for 2 weeks (for the sake of not spreading diseases and just in case it would be a lost animal and the owner would come to get it back).

2) After two weeks, the animal is put on the adoption list and moved to "adoption" section of the shelter

3) If someone decides to adopt it, then it's sent to the vet for being vaccined and neutered. The family comes and gets it when it's done and pays 50 euro whatsoever so that the shelter can cover part of the costs (not for the sake of euthanising others, but mostly to get some money for food and general care )

 

Yes, a select few of the human population kill each other for pointless reasons, but the greater society has the ethics to see that it's wrong and punishes them for it. IMO there's something wrong in the heads of people who can kill each other or whatever, and I guess it's that there's something wrong with the set of morals they should have.

 

Oh but you're talking about murder here. I'm talking about killing in general. Do you punish a GI that drops a bomb on Irak? I aint questioning the war in irak that's another subject, but we are the only species to rage wars... despite of these higher morals, weird, uh?

 

We are intelligent and can rationalise situations and think things through, that's why we have better morals.

Animals aren't capable of thinking things through like that. You can train a dog not to bite a bird when he sees it, but you can't ever explain why it shouldn't.

 

It's not called intelligence nor morals, it's called empathy. And I agree that might be something our species has that others don't. That makes us even worse: we can differentiate right from wrong, but we chose wrong quite often.

 

 

I'd hate to be the one to say it, but is it possible that being touched by a human and having no power to stop it when you have never had any human contact in your life might be stressfull for the rabbit? I'm no wild rabbit, and I have no idea how their minds work, but I dunno, I just wonder if the only reason it acts calm is because it's scared out of it's mind. *wonders if anyone has done research into the effect of human contact to wild animals*

 

BUT - good point that you couldn't be completely sure it wouldn't be able to survive. It might just be a bit sore and be resting, and then acting all 'end of the world'-like because it's so scared of you. I have no idea, I'm just brain storming

 

Of course a wild rabbit would be terrified to get approached by a human in such conditions. Pets that have been brought up among humans already freak out when they're wounded and you get close to help, just ask any vet. And if an animal has been hit by a car and doesn't run away, chances are high that it's badly wounded and if you can't take it to a vet please finish it off. C'm on, if you don't it will only die in the worst sufferings in 10', or get an infection, or get eaten by a predator 5 minutes later because it cannot defend itself anymore...

 

I understand some people CANT do it, I really do, but saying it's for the rabbits sake because it was better for it to die with someone holding its paw or whatever is just an excuse to recomfort oneself

[Shaza!]

That may be, but he's still strange

My friend used to try to convince me otherwise, she sent me videos and podcasts and whatnot, and I clicked on one to give him a chance and he appeared to be trying to rape some random dog in hawaii. Because that's normal.

 

You sound like my friend, and I sound like yours

I think I know that video but he was doing no such thing He loves animals.

He's never been one to follow the crowd but you gotta love him for it

[Oakie Doke]

System is:

1) they get a new animal, it's checked by the vet and put into quarantaine for 2 weeks (for the sake of not spreading diseases and just in case it would be a lost animal and the owner would come to get it back).

2) After two weeks, the animal is put on the adoption list and moved to "adoption" section of the shelter

3) If someone decides to adopt it, then it's sent to the vet for being vaccined and neutered. The family comes and gets it when it's done and pays 50 euro whatsoever so that the shelter can cover part of the costs (not for the sake of euthanising others, but mostly to get some money for food and general care )

 

Oh okay In some ways I guess it's better to not let them take the animal right there on the spot - it would make people have to think it over more, and prepare their home properly and such.

How does their euthanasia system work?

 

Oh but you're talking about murder here. I'm talking about killing in general. Do you punish a GI that drops a bomb on Irak? I aint questioning the war in irak that's another subject, but we are the only species to rage wars... despite of these higher morals, weird, uh?

 

Good point. It's sick, I don't understand the point of wars. I don't see how they prove anything at all.

 

It's not called intelligence nor morals, it's called empathy. And I agree that might be something our species has that others don't. That makes us even worse: we can differentiate right from wrong, but we chose wrong quite often.

 

Okay, we'll call it empathy then But that's exactly the point, you can't blame an animal for choosing the wrong because they don't know better, but we're different because we should know better. So you can blame us.

 

Of course a wild rabbit would be terrified to get approached by a human in such conditions. Pets that have been brought up among humans already freak out when they're wounded and you get close to help, just ask any vet. And if an animal has been hit by a car and doesn't run away, chances are high that it's badly wounded and if you can't take it to a vet please finish it off. C'm on, if you don't it will only die in the worst sufferings in 10', or get an infection, or get eaten by a predator 5 minutes later because it cannot defend itself anymore...

 

I understand some people CANT do it, I really do, but saying it's for the rabbits sake because it was better for it to die with someone holding its paw or whatever is just an excuse to recomfort oneself

 

A pet would be terrified by being injured, but they would definately be more terrified alone than if they had a stranger comforting them. I think pets definately do calm down when you pat them. I don't know ... I'm going to look this up.

 

And the idea of someone literally sitting next to a rabbit holding it's paw has given me the funniest mental image

 

You sound like my friend, and I sound like yours

I think I know that video but he was doing no such thing He loves animals.

He's never been one to follow the crowd but you gotta love him for it

 

This is hilarious. Yeah, she knew I instantly like people that like animals, so she says "Oh look, Russel Brand likes dogs" ... but I saw only him liking dogs a little too much

[rockinbabzz]

I did also say that I was in the process of becoming a vegetarian...

 

It's not an overnight thing:wink2:

 

For me... its been a looong road.

 

It's definatly not hypocritical because I'm not just gonna end my membership and my involvment because It's hard for me to cut out meat...they say to go slow into it, because otherwise you screw up your imune system... & I HAVE, SEVERAL TIMES LOL

BUT, MEMBERS OF PETA AREN'T ALL NECESSARILY VEGAN... PEOPLE WHO DONATE, DONATE BECAUSE THEY LOVE ANIMALS AND WANT TO DO WHAT THEY CAN TO HELP...That's what I do at this point.

 

Well yeah, I suppose you've got a point.

 

But still, becoming a vegetarian is quite simple. When there's a piece of meat in front of you, instead of putting it in your mouth, you don't. It's not gonna ruin your immunesystem, that's made up by the meatindustry.

[Kelzy]

 

And the idea of someone literally sitting next to a rabbit holding it's paw has given me the funniest mental image

Which I didn't do, so don't be imagining me doing it!

I just moved it off the roadside, which was partially for our safety too.

Then, after being "unbrave" I just sat by and waited for it to die. It wasn't thrashing around in agony. It was clear to me that it wasn't going to be long. I have seen animals die before. I had a kitten that got ran over when it got scared by the noise of my neighbour's friend's V8 ute. (who drove into our shared driveway and wasn't meant to ). It ran out in front of it trying to get back to my front door. I'd only had the kitten for 3 weeks. I found it instantly and it died within 5 minutes. I nursed it and when I said "love ya baby" , he let out a breath and died. I hadn't said it before and it felt like he waited to hear it.. sweet moment, very weird..

[Oakie Doke]

Well yeah, I suppose you've got a point.

 

But still, becoming a vegetarian is quite simple. When there's a piece of meat in front of you, instead of putting it in your mouth, you don't. It's not gonna ruin your immune system, that's made up by the meat industry.

 

I agree. Changing from meat to not meat isn't a huge change for your body internally like at all, it's just mentally.

 

 

Try to limit the amount of stress for the animal. Please do not repeatedly pick up and hold a wild animal and do not invite other people to "come look." Once the animal is in a transport container, try to resist any urge to peek into the container or remove the animal from the container. Although wild animals are beautiful and fascinating, and curiosity about the animal is natural, exposure to humans is extremely stressful for the animal. Wild animals view human beings as predators. Prolonged handling or exposure to humans, in addition to an injury or illness, may increase the animal's level of stress and shock. Any exposure to humans that is not actual rehabilitation worsens their chance of survival. Animals that appear unfazed by human contact are either extremely ill or in shock from trauma. Animals do not "understand" people are trying to help them and talking to a wild animal will only increase stress. Wild animals are not comforted by human voices as household pets might be.

http://www.ontariospca.ca/4-wildlife-guidelines.shtml

 

But I don't know, this is just anecdotal advice, how can they be sure they aren't actually calming down..

*keeps searching*

Hmm, so I can't find any actual research that's been done into stress-hormone levels or anything. All I can find is a bunch of websites giving advice to inexperienced do-gooders, and the first advice is to not touch the animals because they might bite, so they don't even mention anything like stroking them. What they do all agree on is covering the animal up so it's dark. So that's good to know I guess.

 

The first thing you need to do is to calm down the frightened animal. This can be accomplished by making some kind of nesting box and putting the orphan in a dark, quiet room. Underneath the nesting box should be a heating pad set on low covered by a towel.

http://www.ulster.net/~hmintzer/June5.htm

 

Mammals - Gently covering the mammal with a towel helps to calm the animal. If possible, use a broom or shovel to gently slide the mammal into an escape-proof container that has air holes.

 

Birds - A towel can be used to gently cover and catch the bird, keeping it calm. Place the bird in a container shoebox, or cardboard box with tops or flaps, or large paper grocery bag.

 

Birds & mammals - Keep the contained mammal/bird in a warm, dark and quiet place away from human activity and curious pets Resist the temptation to handle or show off the animal. Such treatment is very stressful and can be fatal to the animal. Injured animals are usually in shock, and providing extra warmth can be life-saving. This can be done by using a heating pad set on low or with plastic bottles or jars filled with hot water.

http://greenwich.audubon.org/WildlifeSci_InjuredWildlife_Help.html

 

The injured animal will almost certainly be in shock, either lying still or thrashing about. It will greatly benefit from being covered by a blanket, coat or towel, or whatever you have at your disposal. In particular, make sure you cover its head. Most animals and birds calm down once they are in darkness.

http://www.wildaid.co.uk/whatiswildaid.html

 

Hmm, just found this one, it's a pretty specific case, but it implies stroking a wild bird to calm it down, and the post appears to be from someone pretty experienced.

 

You may find that if you stroke the top of its head while it is seizing, the bird will calm down.

http://ask.metafilter.com/28370/Injured-bird-help

 

I just don't know. I wish I'd found some conclusive thing here, about touching/stroking wild animals Because I certainly do stroke animals to calm them down ... when their already restrained. I guess it's hard to tell if that's relaxing them, or if that's them giving up or something

 

And I searched the Russell Brand videa again () but I could only find one video, and there were definately two. In the video I found find he was being lovely and is obviously an animal lover (), but there was definately another one before where he was convinced all the dogs are on drugs and then chased the dog around trying to hump it

[Kelzy]

Well yeah, I suppose you've got a point.

 

But still, becoming a vegetarian is quite simple. When there's a piece of meat in front of you, instead of putting it in your mouth, you don't. It's not gonna ruin your immunesystem, that's made up by the meatindustry.

 

Well, actually, I already have an immune disease so altering my diet can affect it. And even if someone could prove that it's only slightly going to affect it, I really don't want to risk going into a relapse to make someone else happy. Any dietary changes I make are gradual, not sudden. It's important for me to eat specific foods and get specific vitamins and minerals.. I have trouble digesting certain foods and leafy greens are actually one of them so I tend to avoid them, whereas chicken breast is highly recommended. This is advice given to me by Gastroenterologists and Dietitians.

 

So in general, I would agree that what you say is true, but it can't apply to everyone.

[Oakie Doke]

Which I didn't do, so don't be imagining me doing it!

I just moved it off the roadside, which was partially for our safety too.

Then, after being "unbrave" I just sat by and waited for it to die. It wasn't thrashing around in agony. It was clear to me that it wasn't going to be long.

 

Oh, but it's so funny looking! :hmph:

Oh, so you weren't even patting it then?

Well I wanted to look up the patting thing anyway. I was thinking about it today when I was patting the 28 parrot at work that goes insane mental every time you try to catch it

 

I have seen animals die before. I had a kitten that got ran over when it got scared by the noise of my neighbour's friend's V8 ute. (who drove into our shared driveway and wasn't meant to). It ran out in front of it trying to get back to my front door. I'd only had the kitten for 3 weeks. I found it instantly and it died within 5 minutes. I nursed it and when I said "love ya baby" , he let out a breath and died. I hadn't said it before and it felt like he waited to hear it.. sweet moment, very weird..

 

[Niki27]

A pet would be terrified by being injured, but they would definately be more terrified alone than if they had a stranger comforting them. I think pets definately do calm down when you pat them. I don't know ... I'm going to look this up.

 

And the idea of someone literally sitting next to a rabbit holding it's paw has given me the funniest mental image

 

Trust me, when my cat got injured, it panicked so much it didn't even recognize me and I would have lost a hand in the process of taking it to the vet if i hadn't protected myself with a blanket. Oh and let me say my cat is the sweetest thing and we have a very special relationship, since he thinks my lap is his private sofa, that my belly is his pillow at night etc. He never never bit or scratched me but that day he had turned into a real tiger because he hurt.

 

And Kelzy, I wasn't making fun of what you did, i find it extremely nice, but I think you are giving animals human feelings they don't have. A kind of anthropomorphic transfer.

 

And about euthanasia... well they usually wait and see and if noone comes for the animal, and they need to "make room" for new arrivals well... they put them to sleep with an injection

[Oakie Doke]

Well, actually, I already have an immune disease so altering my diet can affect it. And even if someone could prove that it's only slightly going to affect it, I really don't want to risk going into a relapse to make someone else happy. Any dietary changes I make are gradual, not sudden. It's important for me to eat specific foods and get specific vitamins and minerals.. I have trouble digesting certain foods and leafy greens are actually one of them so I tend to avoid them, whereas chicken breast is highly recommended. This is advice given to me by Gastroenterologists and Dietitians.

 

So in general, I would agree that what you say is true, but it can't apply to everyone.

 

That's true of course. And you have to be much more careful with even small changes, and it is a change. It would depend on lots of things I guess. Like, what someone's diet was like before, if they ate meat for breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks it might be a bit fo a difference . Some people do have side effects I guess. Mostly good ones though, simply because you can't eat a bunch of junk food anymore

 

Trust me, when my cat got injured, it panicked so much it didn't even recognize me and I would have lost a hand in the process of taking it to the vet if i hadn't protected myself with a blanket. Oh and let me say my cat is the sweetest thing and we have a very special relationship, since he thinks my lap is his private sofa, that my belly is his pillow at night etc. He never never bit or scratched me but that day he had turned into a real tiger because he hurt.

 

Some animals turn defensive/insane when they're scared, but I think most tend to go incredibly shy, and will let people touch them in ways they wouldn't normally. But I think my point is if you hadn't been there and your cat had had to sit around freaking out by itself he would have been more freaked out than if you were there to catch him, maybe not at first, but did he calm down after a bit? Do you agree he would've calmed down faster with you there than without? I think so anyway...

 

And Kelzy, I wasn't making fun of what you did, I find it extremely nice, but I think you are giving animals human feelings they don't have. A kind of anthropomorphic transfer.

 

Maybe. But I think sometimes we do things like that for ourselves as much as for the animal itself... Like, you would feel pretty bad just leaving it and doing nothing. Selfish, huh?

 

And about euthanasia... well they usually wait and see and if noone comes for the animal, and they need to "make room" for new arrivals well... they put them to sleep with an injection

 

So you don't know the process of how they decide which ones are going to go or anything?

[Kelzy]

Oh, so you weren't even patting it then?

No. Of course not. It was a dying rabbit on the side of the road.

Not a loved pet of mine, which I would try to comfort somehow.

Thank you.

 

And Kelzy, I wasn't making fun of what you did, i find it extremely nice, but I think you are giving animals human feelings they don't have. A kind of anthropomorphic transfer.

At first glance I am disagreeing with you here. Care to elaborate on what I've posted that makes you think that?

[Oakie Doke]

No. Of course not. It was a dying rabbit on the side of the road.

Not a loved pet of mine, which I would try to comfort somehow.

 

At first glance I am disagreeing with you here. Care to elaborate on what I've posted that makes you think that?

 

Good point, and it was probably all mangled and stuff?

 

I think she just means the 'assuming it would like company while it died' kind of thing? *shurgs*

[weealx]

Good point, and it was probably all mangled and stuff?

 

I think she just means the 'assuming it would like company while it died' kind of thing? *shurgs*

 

 

it is not fair to send Mika to Australia, he is not a criminal

[Niki27]

Some animals turn defensive/insane when they're scared, but I think most tend to go incredibly shy, and will let people touch them in ways they wouldn't normally.

 

I think they're just too scared to move, thats why they let you touch them. Just like they froze in the middle of the road when they see the lights of a car, and get smashed because they don't run away but stay there.

The purpose putting them in the dark is usually to blind them so that they don't see you and panick less.

 

So you don't know the process of how they decide which ones are going to go or anything?

 

I don't know all the details... The dogs who are considered as a risk (big agressive dogs for example) are usually put to sleep to prevent accidents, that I know. As for the rest, I don't know the exact criteria. I guess the vets and people in charge trust their experience, they usually have a pretty good feeling regarding the pets which are more likely to get adopted because they've been working there for ages.

[Niki27]

At first glance I am disagreeing with you here. Care to elaborate on what I've posted that makes you think that?

 

Well yes I meant that not wanting to die alone is a very human feeling.

Most animals actually go and hide to die alone when they feel their time has come.

[Oakie Doke]

it is not fair to send Mika to Australia, he is not a criminal

 

Huh?!

 

I think they're just too scared to move, thats why they let you touch them. Just like they froze in the middle of the road when they see the lights of a car, and get smashed because they don't run away but stay there.

The purpose putting them in the dark is usually to blind them so that they don't see you and panick less.

 

Hmmmm, I think your right.

It's like sometimes when you find an injured wild animal or something, (like a mouse I once found in my kitten's mouth ), it totally lets you pick it up and handle it, but then when the shock wears off it goes back to being scared like normally. Well, that's what happened with this mouse once, my mum was like "Oh, it's definately going to die, it's not even moving, we should just put it out of it's misery." But I put it in the bathtub and gave it a bed and food and water and god knows what else (I was little, okay) and then a couple hours later it ran away. I chased it and caught it again () and put it back in, and it just jumped out and ran away again, so it was really perfectly fine *shrugs*

 

I don't know all the details... The dogs who are considered as a risk (big agressive dogs for example) are usually put to sleep to prevent accidents, that I know. As for the rest, I don't know the exact criteria. I guess the vets and people in charge trust their experience, they usually have a pretty good feeling regarding the pets which are more likely to get adopted because they've been working there for ages.

 

Yeah, I'm okay with actual aggressive dogs being put to sleep, because it's kind of a risk to rehome them. At my shelter they assess dogs before they accept them, so they only take in dogs in the first place that aren't aggressive, and if a dog attacks anyone unprovoked while it's there it gets put to sleep too.

But I would hate to be that person who has to choose which ones are least likely to be adopted Imagine if you thought "Yep, I don't think anyone will want a pitbull" or whatever, and then the next day someone came in wanting a pitbull, and you'd just killed it? Or if you put down the oldest ones, and someone came in looking for an older dog, and all you had were puppies ... Ick.

 

Well yes I meant that not wanting to die alone is a very human feeling.

Most animals actually go and hide to die alone when they feel their time has come.

 

Ooh, I didn't think of that ... that's true isn't it?

[Kelzy]

Good point, and it was probably all mangled and stuff?

Not really. But still ick.

I think she just means the 'assuming it would like company while it died' kind of thing? *shurgs*

Oh right. well sort of.. But I'd more likely do it with a pet, not roadkill.

Well yes I meant that not wanting to die alone is a very human feeling. Most animals actually go and hide to die alone when they feel their time has come.

That's true.

But.. it could apply to humans too.

I don't know if this applies to everyone or not, but I have actually had a near death experience.

I was really sick in hospital with Pneumonia once and my left lung collapsed and the right one was about to.. They had to put me on 100% oxygen.. I was ok with people being around me for awhile, but there was a point where things went from bad to worse and they had to put me into an induced coma for 3 days.. At that stage, I thought I would die. I remember that I didn't want anyone near me. I wanted to go off somewhere quiet and die alone. I felt very unattached.. But, at the same time I wanted people to do what they could for me.

[Kelzy]

it is not fair to send Mika to Australia, he is not a criminal

I'm surprised they haven't sent you here!!!!