P.E.T.A People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals

[Oakie Doke]

Not really. But still ick.

 

And patting a dying animal is always a bit ick with the factor of never being quite sure when it's gone from patting a dying animal to patting a dead animal

 

That's true.

But.. it could apply to humans too.

I don't know if this applies to everyone or not, but I have actually had a near death experience.

I was really sick in hospital with Pneumonia once and my left lung collapsed and the right one was about to.. They had to put me on 100% oxygen.. I was ok with people being around me for awhile, but there was a point where things went from bad to worse and they had to put me into an induced coma for 3 days.. At that stage, I thought I would die. I remember that I didn't want anyone near me. I wanted to go off somewhere quiet and die alone. I felt very unattached.. But, at the same time I wanted people to do what they could for me.

 

Firstly,

 

Secondly, hmmm, so what you are saying is that it's instinct for all creatures to want to be alone when they die? That's quite interesting, because would that mean when we cuddle a dying pet, as you would be inclined to do, you're kind of ... doing exactly what they wouldn't want you to do?

[soangel]

Okay, so don't stone me for my view. I'm going to try and sum it up somehow

 

 

 

I'm not a vegetarian myself. I don't eat meat everyday though, or certain types of meat, but I still eat meat. I respect vegetarians, since it is not something I could bring myself to do, to give up meat, even though there is evidence that shows we don't need it. There are many reasons for this, which I'm not going to go into entirely here though.

 

However, while I respect vegetarians, this is done on the basis that they respect my own choice to eat meat, and don't try and tell me that I am morally wrong or such for doing so. I also don't think that eating meat means that I am cruel to animals, or that I can't be against cruelty of animals.

 

 

I do think that the way animals are farmed etc could be more humane, and is unnecessarily cruel, and that we don't need to eat as much meat a we do. I am against chicken battery farms, and purchase free range eggs.

 

I am against cruelty to animals, and find it horrible how people can beat, torture or deliberately hurt an animal.

 

I choose not to wear fur, and

 

Just to add a little tagent.....

Another thing I am against is the killing of animals, (such as sharks), who are themselves killers, and who may have attacked a human (unless, and this is a very shaky unless, the animal is not attacking out of protection or food, but simply out of agressiveness). Every few years or so you hear a story about a shark who has attacked a human. In some cases this human was in what was seen by the shark as its territory, and in some cases the human was wearing wet suits (which make us appear more seal like), and yet normally there is a call "have the shark destroyed", as they put it, due to a risk to human life. I find that in cases like this, where the animal is just acting in its nature to act, such a thing is done more so out of revenge than out of a desire to protect others. And in the cases where the desire is to protect humans, there are many cases where this desire to destroy the shark who is seen as unnaturally aggressive leads to many other sharks being killed. Also, it seems to be more important to find out why a shark may be behaving aggressively, so as to prevent further problems, than to kill a shark that may be the shark which is behaving aggressively.

 

Some might see this differently, but that's how I view it.

 

 

Uh... so yeah... that me attempting to sum up my views, poorly....

[Kelzy]

And patting a dying animal is always a bit ick with the factor of never being quite sure when it's gone from patting a dying animal to patting a dead animal

I really don't have a problem with touching a dead animal. It's more comfort reasons. I don't want to move them around unless necessary.

I moved the rabbit off the road. I carried my kitten inside on a pillow. I do as little physical movement as possible.

 

Firstly,

That's the reaction I normally get

I think everyone has a near death experience at some point. Some are just more subtle..

Secondly, hmmm, so what you are saying is that it's instinct for all creatures to want to be alone when they die? That's quite interesting, because would that mean when we cuddle a dying pet, as you would be inclined to do, you're kind of ... doing exactly what they wouldn't want you to do?

Well, that was my experience. I can't be sure it applies to everyone. I wanted to be comfortable, but I didn't want people crying all over me. So based on how I felt at that time is how I treat dying animals and people.

[Kelzy]

Okay, so don't stone me for my view. I'm going to try and sum it up somehow

:bow: *zhhz* it's a trend

Just to add a little tagent.....

Another thing I am against is the killing of animals, (such as sharks), who are themselves killers, and who may have attacked a human (unless, and this is a very shaky unless, the animal is not attacking out of protection or food, but simply out of agressiveness). Every few years or so you hear a story about a shark who has attacked a human. In some cases this human was in what was seen by the shark as its territory, and in some cases the human was wearing wet suits (which make us appear more seal like), and yet normally there is a call "have the shark destroyed", as they put it, due to a risk to human life. I find that in cases like this, where the animal is just acting in its nature to act, such a thing is done more so out of revenge than out of a desire to protect others. And in the cases where the desire is to protect humans, there are many cases where this desire to destroy the shark who is seen as unnaturally aggressive leads to many other sharks being killed. Also, it seems to be more important to find out why a shark may be behaving aggressively, so as to prevent further problems, than to kill a shark that may be the shark which is behaving aggressively.

 

Some might see this differently, but that's how I view it.

 

 

Uh... so yeah... that me attempting to sum up my views, poorly....

 

I don't think killing a shark because it thought someone was a seal is right.

If a shark went on a massive killing spree like in JAWS then it would be different, but they don't have to kill it..

 

But ..

How do you (we all) feel about vicious dogs being euthanized for attacking people? Especially children?

[soangel]

Thats actually another thing I have mixed views about.

 

It all depends on the degree of things I guess. For a dog that is super aggressive and attacks children unprovoked, then I think at the least it should be removed from a situation where it might hurt someone. I would only advocate euthanising it as a last resort.

 

However, some dogs are aggressive because of the way they've been trained, and if there is a chance at retraining the dog, then this should be attempted. However, I know this is not always possible, and that sometimes it might be best to euthanise the dog. I know it sounds cruel, but in some cases there might not be another option

 

 

 

 

And yet, I am against something like the ban on pitbulls. I don't see it as the dog breed as being aggressive, but rather as a the people breeding the dogs. The difference between pitbulls, and dogs such as that, and other dogs, is that when these "manly" dogs are often favoured by people who might want a dog they see as "tough", and so raise it accordingly, and that these dogs can do more damage when they are agressive, since pitbulls, among other breeds, such as staffys, can lock jaw etc.

 

(But then, as our family owns two staffys, one of which is a pup, and one of which is the calmest dog I have ever known I may be biased )

[Ioana]

I just had impaled worm for lunch,deep fried in butter... the things you miss out on as a vegetarian

 

 

p.s: don't mind me,I'm jolly

[BonjourMika1990]

Well yeah, I suppose you've got a point.

 

But still, becoming a vegetarian is quite simple. When there's a piece of meat in front of you, instead of putting it in your mouth, you don't. It's not gonna ruin your immunesystem, that's made up by the meatindustry.

 

It has not been that easy lol

 

I wish it were...I really do

 

For some its realllllllly intense. I did it the wrong way like half a dozen times, cutting out meat all together...not having really organic grocery stores in my area makes it even harder. I had no support here, because my family all eat meat and love it etc...they didn't get it. And I got pretty sick after 2 weeks of no meat. I started losing alot of weight because I just couldn't think of what to eat instead of meat for my meals.

[Oakie Doke]

Another thing I am against is the killing of animals, (such as sharks), who are themselves killers, and who may have attacked a human (unless, and this is a very shaky unless, the animal is not attacking out of protection or food, but simply out of agressiveness). Every few years or so you hear a story about a shark who has attacked a human. In some cases this human was in what was seen by the shark as its territory, and in some cases the human was wearing wet suits (which make us appear more seal like), and yet normally there is a call "have the shark destroyed", as they put it, due to a risk to human life. I find that in cases like this, where the animal is just acting in its nature to act, such a thing is done more so out of revenge than out of a desire to protect others. And in the cases where the desire is to protect humans, there are many cases where this desire to destroy the shark who is seen as unnaturally aggressive leads to many other sharks being killed. Also, it seems to be more important to find out why a shark may be behaving aggressively, so as to prevent further problems, than to kill a shark that may be the shark which is behaving aggressively.

 

I hate that shark-killing thing!

It makes absolutely no sence - it's our fault for going into their feeding pen dressed like their food. They have no way of knowing if the shark they are killing is the one who attacked the person, and it doesn't accomplish anything. It's just like you say - revenge. Do sharks really go around being extra aggressive? I don't think so.

I was in Esperance ... uh 2 years ago, when some kid got attacked, and I was snorkelling in deep water out of the bay 2 beaches along from where it happened on the day it happened. I think they went to look for the shark to kill it, but they couldn't find any. Which is completely ridiculous, because there were signs at that beach saying not to go in the water because there was a dead whale on the beach, and it's lovely juices might attract sharks. What a fricking idiot. (Oh yeah, me too, but I wouldn't have blamed the shark)

 

I really don't have a problem with touching a dead animal. It's more comfort reasons. I don't want to move them around unless necessary.

 

But it's creepy to be sitting there stroking it after it's dead

 

How do you (we all) feel about vicious dogs being euthanized for attacking people? Especially children?

 

It all depends on the degree of things I guess. For a dog that is super aggressive and attacks children unprovoked, then I think at the least it should be removed from a situation where it might hurt someone. I would only advocate euthanising it as a last resort.

 

However, some dogs are aggressive because of the way they've been trained, and if there is a chance at retraining the dog, then this should be attempted. However, I know this is not always possible, and that sometimes it might be best to euthanise the dog. I know it sounds cruel, but in some cases there might not be another option

 

Yeah, it depends on the degree and situation.

But if a dog is aggressive with no or very little provocation and there is nothing that can be done to stop it, in some cases it's the only option. It massively sucks, because the whole problem is caused by us, and it's not the dogs fault, but if it was born naturally aggressive, or trained to be aggressive, there's almost no chance of getting rid of that, or at least not to a degree where you'd be able to trust the dog. And then again, because of humans domestication of dogs, if it can't live in a domestic setting, then there's practically no where it can live

 

BUT there's also like when a dog mauls a baby. And that is just a horrible situation. That happened quite recently here and it was all over the news. It's not the dog's fault at all, it's the owner's, like what happens usually is that they bring the new baby home, don't do anything to introduce the dog to it, and instead lock the dog outside and pay it no attention, and the second it manages to get in the house it gets to the baby and see's a toy/intruder With this one a few months ago the parents didn't want to ever go back to the house let alone see the dog - what happens then? Good luck re-homing a dog with "baby-mauler" stamped across it's head...

 

And yet, I am against something like the ban on pitbulls. I don't see it as the dog breed as being aggressive, but rather as a the people breeding the dogs. The difference between pitbulls, and dogs such as that, and other dogs, is that when these "manly" dogs are often favoured by people who might want a dog they see as "tough", and so raise it accordingly, and that these dogs can do more damage when they are agressive, since pitbulls, among other breeds, such as staffys, can lock jaw etc.

 

(But then, as our family owns two staffys, one of which is a pup, and one of which is the calmest dog I have ever known I may be biased)

 

100% with you - I think you've hit the ball on the head (is that the saying??), the correlation is just that people who train their dogs to be aggressive own those kinds of breeds. And you're not biased, you have experience

 

I just had impaled worm for lunch,deep fried in butter... the things you miss out on as a vegetarian

 

p.s: don't mind me,I'm jolly

 

You had WHAT?!

 

It has not been that easy lol

 

I wish it were...I really do

 

For some its realllllllly intense. I did it the wrong way like half a dozen times, cutting out meat all together...not having really organic grocery stores in my area makes it even harder. I had no support here, because my family all eat meat and love it etc...they didn't get it. And I got pretty sick after 2 weeks of no meat. I started losing alot of weight because I just couldn't think of what to eat instead of meat for my meals.

 

Were you eating meat substitutes? I think that's the easiest way to replace meat. They pretty much make them so they have all the nutrients and proteins you'd be missing out on from meat, and you cook them basically just the same (It's just a matter of convincing your mum to cook it in a separate pan, my mum still can't understand why I don't want my veggie patty soaked in meat-juice). What kind of meals do your family eat?

I think I had it pretty easy because we ate pretty balanced meat, potatoes and vegies type meals most days, so you can just replace the meat part with some kind of substitute. But you don't need to every day, because we don't really need meat everyday anyway. Another easier/cheaper, but not as nice alternative is just canned beans. Basically any kind, they have the same proteins and stuff. You can just stick like half a can in the microwave for a bit and chuck that on your plate instead of the meat (if your parents aren't helpful enough to cook your meat-thing separate for you, at least every day).

[Wendi]

It has not been that easy lol

 

I wish it were...I really do

 

For some its realllllllly intense. I did it the wrong way like half a dozen times, cutting out meat all together...not having really organic grocery stores in my area makes it even harder. I had no support here, because my family all eat meat and love it etc...they didn't get it. And I got pretty sick after 2 weeks of no meat. I started losing alot of weight because I just couldn't think of what to eat instead of meat for my meals.

 

My daughter came home from school, aged 13, and said she had gone vegetarian because of a film they had been shown, by the anti-vivisection

league!! She did not lose weight, and had no trouble with her diet. I shopped

specifically for her, buying quorn etc, and she had a good, well-balanced

diet. In the last few months she has started having chicken occassionally

but will not eat red meat. I appreciate that means she is not longer a vegetarian, but this was really to point out that it can be done overnight if you are careful with your meal plans - and if you dont have an existing

dietary problem.

are careful with what you eat

[uhsofamous]

and if your a teen check out Peta2.com

its more for the younger people, they have lots of cool stuff one the site!

and you get free stuff if you get points for doing some animal activism

[Ioana]

 

 

 

 

You had WHAT?!

 

 

 

Are you not familiar with european cuisine?

[Mika4Life13]

I'm all for animals. Every thing you have listed, I am against. Animals aren't brainless beings. Just because we don't speak their language doesn't mean we can go ahead and kill them and test chemicals and such on them. And one thing that really bothers me is when I see roadkill. If a person gets hit, ask them if they're ok and get them to a hospital, but if an animal gets hit, people just keep on driving.

I hate humans.

you should become the animal version of poison ivy form batman and robin :lmfao: I can see it too...

[BonjourMika1990]

My mom cooks very healthy for us, don't get me wrong...but we have meat for every meal like most familys (well except breakfast)

 

It's just so rare for anyone within like a 40 mile radius to be a vegetarian... it's strange, but that's how it is... When I move to the city this year (hopefully) it will be easier to cater to the lifestyle of a vegetarian.

 

When I was younger and even now lol...my mom was not cool with the idea because she said it would compromise my growth. I explained to her about the substitutes etc... but she wasn't convinced:naughty:

[Oakie Doke]

My daughter came home from school, aged 13, and said she had gone vegetarian because of a film they had been shown, by the anti-vivisection

league!! She did not lose weight, and had no trouble with her diet. I shopped

specifically for her, buying quorn etc, and she had a good, well-balanced

diet. In the last few months she has started having chicken occassionally

but will not eat red meat. I appreciate that means she is not longer a vegetarian, but this was really to point out that it can be done overnight if you are careful with your meal plans - and if you dont have an existing

dietary problem.

are careful with what you eat

 

I think, when you're living under your parent's roof, it's really important that they support you. Otherwhiles it's pretty near imposible

Where the frick do they sell this quorn stuff? I've nevr in my life seen it

 

Are you not familiar with european cuisine?

 

No! Please explain!

 

My mom cooks very healthy for us, don't get me wrong...but we have meat for every meal like most familys (well except breakfast)

 

It's just so rare for anyone within like a 40 mile radius to be a vegetarian... it's strange, but that's how it is... When I move to the city this year (hopefully) it will be easier to cater to the lifestyle of a vegetarian.

 

When I was younger and even now lol...my mom was not cool with the idea because she said it would compromise my growth. I explained to her about the substitutes etc... but she wasn't convinced

 

What are some example meals you want help vegetarianising?

I don't know what you have for lunch, but if you want something simple you can have nutella or peanut butter or jam or whatever sandwiches. Or extravegant salad sandwiches - just with no meat

Eating out, like takeaway, you can have just chips, or Subway - veggie subways are the cheapest too

 

Where abouts do you live? I think you'd be pretty surprised. Go and have a look at supermarkets in your area. I can't gauruntee the first one will have anything, for some reason here Coles and IGA don't always carry anything, but Woolworths always has basically an entire freezer section of just vegetarian food, but I'm sure there will at least be a supermarket in your area that carries something.

Some of the things our supermarkets carry that my mum buys for me includeee ... sausages, schnitzels, burgers, lasagne, pasties, pastas, cheese & spinach rolls, spring rolls .... umm, stuff like that.

 

I'm sure peta has info you could show your mum about health and stuff. But I tried to show my mum some stuff like that and she was like like "whatever, I don't really care"

[Wendi]

I think, when you're living under your parent's roof, it's really important that they support you. Otherwhiles it's pretty near imposible

Where the frick do they sell this quorn stuff? I've nevr in my life seen it

 

We have a lot of quorn products here - quorn pieces that can be made

in casserole style, or stir-fried, quorn sausages, bacon etc!!

It made cooking for Eilidh quite easy - and I would make a separate meal

for her, and use different utensils!! I made all my soups with vegetable

stock, so she could have that - but things are easier when its easy to get

meat substitute!! I even got freeze-dried quorn mince!! :punk:

[rockinbabzz]

Well alright yeah if you don't eat any 'fake-meat' it's different I guess. In here it's really easy, all the supermarkets have a big department with stuff like that, and it all tastes really well. Maybe it's different in America, I never thought of that...

 

Well good luck with it

[PhotoJenic]

 

Of course a wild rabbit would be terrified to get approached by a human in such conditions. Pets that have been brought up among humans already freak out when they're wounded and you get close to help, just ask any vet. And if an animal has been hit by a car and doesn't run away, chances are high that it's badly wounded and if you can't take it to a vet please finish it off. C'm on, if you don't it will only die in the worst sufferings in 10', or get an infection, or get eaten by a predator 5 minutes later because it cannot defend itself anymore...

 

I understand some people CANT do it, I really do, but saying it's for the rabbits sake because it was better for it to die with someone holding its paw or whatever is just an excuse to recomfort oneself

 

Well that's still not going to get me to be able to snap a poor animals neck even though I really do live in the middle of nowhere and can't run it to a vet or whip out my cell phone and call one up seems how there's no cell service in this area.

 

Also it's not to just "re-comfort" myself as you have put it. That's an insult that a "wink" doesn't make up for. So what if it looks like we have totally opposite views. I could either stop for the darn thing or not stop at all. I'd rather stop and see if there's anything I can do than just sticking my nose up in the air and walking on by pretending I didn't see it. If there's nothing I can do then there's really nothing I can do. Sadly everything happens for a reason and one person isn't always able to change it alone. If that makes me such a bad person for not snapping it's neck or hitting on the head then whatever. It would make a bad person if I pretended I didn't see it and walked on by. Kind of seeing this as a darned if you do darned if you don't type thing.

 

I never like getting involved in these threads. It gets so finicky and goes in circles because everyone is going to have their own opinions and it'll take forever to persuade someone to change their mind on certain issues.

[Niki27]

Sadly everything happens for a reason and one person isn't always able to change it alone. If that makes me such a bad person for not snapping it's neck or hitting on the head then whatever. It would make a bad person if I pretended I didn't see it and walked on by. Kind of seeing this as a darned if you do darned if you don't type thing.

 

You misunderstood me, obviously. I said I fully understood why someone would not do it. I've also said many times that I had never been in the situation of having to take such a decision, and that I could only assume I would kill the animal. But maybe I would get chickeny, maybe I couldn't do it neither. That's why I aint judging Kelzy at all. I think stopping by was already very nice from her and shows she's a good person. What I meant is that if you can't do it, you can't. Saying it's better for the animal that way is on the contrary something I don't agree with, and that's how I understood your post. I probably got you wrong.

[wasabi_tea]

*pops in*

 

Personally, I am against animal cruelty, but I disapprove of the already oft-mentioned radicality of the PETA.

 

I define 'animal cruelty' as causing needless suffering to another animal, so doing things like keeping animals in battery farms or any similar cramped environment, shoving metal tubes down geese's throats to force feed them in order to get foie gras, crushing kittens to death for a fetish's sake, or skinning animals alive. These things I feel should not be happening. However, I believe that as long as an animal is kept happy and healthy during its lifetime, and given the quickest, most painless and non-distressing death possible, it is fine to eat its meat. I also believe that killing non-sentient beings like plants in order to eat them is on the same level as the aforementioned careful killing of sentient beings. Why is this? Because to me, a life is a life is a life. A non-sentient being, in my eyes, is not less worthy of its life simply because it lacks sentience.

 

I doubt that many people would agree with me, but I just thought I'd offer my two pence. (And for the record, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, as everyone's quite entitled to their own, even if I may disagree with it.)

[rilo8913]

*pops in*

 

Personally, I am against animal cruelty, but I disapprove of the already oft-mentioned radicality of the PETA.

 

I define 'animal cruelty' as causing needless suffering to another animal, so doing things like keeping animals in battery farms or any similar cramped environment, shoving metal tubes down geese's throats to force feed them in order to get foie gras, crushing kittens to death for a fetish's sake, or skinning animals alive. These things I feel should not be happening. However, I believe that as long as an animal is kept happy and healthy during its lifetime, and given the quickest, most painless and non-distressing death possible, it is fine to eat its meat. I also believe that killing non-sentient beings like plants in order to eat them is on the same level as the aforementioned careful killing of sentient beings. Why is this? Because to me, a life is a life is a life. A non-sentient being, in my eyes, is not less worthy of its life simply because it lacks sentience.

 

I doubt that many people would agree with me, but I just thought I'd offer my two pence. (And for the record, I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion, as everyone's quite entitled to their own, even if I may disagree with it.)

 

I agree with you.