The world must be saved from gays?

[avoca]

I didn't comment before cause i didn't know, but I am NOT surprised.

 

I don't want to offend anyone, but this is pure middle age point of view.

 

so much for teaching that all men are the same and that christ loves everyone. I'm not in the position of discussing this as my position is not really a religious one, but from the moral pov, it's surely smt unacceptable.

 

 

I thought we'd progressed from the dark age, but evidently we are still stuck there.

[marlau_20zr]

I don't agree with what the Pope says, but I can see some of why he said it. In the Bible it is considered a sin. His job as pope surely involves reminding people of the values of "the church" (and I say that in inverted commas cos it's not the values of MY church necessarily) and one of them is that the church believes in the Bible and in the Bible homosexuality is considered a sin. But so are many other things. Surely the world needs saving from murderers and gossipers and gluttons and adulterers etc etc etc, as much as it may in any way need saving from homosexuals. And I'm not saying it does need to. I just don't see why he doesn't speak out about all of the "white-collar" sins out there. Maybe, because homosexuals are an easily targeted minority group, whereas practically all of us are guilty of some of those others and he would get under the skins of almost everyone?

 

i agree with you

 

i`m not agree of what the Pope said.. but in a way i understand it.. i mean, in the catholic religion being gay is a sin. so it can understand that like he`s the man who represents the church he thinks that.. i`m not surprised of what he had said. i`m catholic but i`m not agree with most of the thinks that do the new Pope..

[DarkLight]

The Pope said this!

I find this unbelievable and bizarre!

What happened to Christian charity and goodwill to all men?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7797269.stm

 

Speaking on Monday, Pope Benedict said that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behaviour was as important as protecting the environment.

 

I don't want to upset any devout people, but, well I am speechless.

I am surprised no one has commented on this already!

 

i saw it on derren brown's blog & commented it's absurd is all i can say

[elanorelle]

The Pope said this!

I find this unbelievable and bizarre!

What happened to Christian charity and goodwill to all men?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7797269.stm

 

Speaking on Monday, Pope Benedict said that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behaviour was as important as protecting the environment.

 

I don't want to upset any devout people, but, well I am speechless.

I am surprised no one has commented on this already!

 

this is so sad...why must prosecution like this continue...that is why I try to avoid some situations because I know as a gay ( bisexual actually) woman I feel I have to sometimes guard myself against negative things....

[Mika4Life13]

The Pope said this!

I find this unbelievable and bizarre!

What happened to Christian charity and goodwill to all men?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7797269.stm

 

Speaking on Monday, Pope Benedict said that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behaviour was as important as protecting the environment.

 

I don't want to upset any devout people, but, well I am speechless.

I am surprised no one has commented on this already!

 

This makes me even more un-religious

[Niki27]

Just a quick question, I see everyone here reacting BUT has anyone read the pope's speech? I mean, not extracts, not quotes out of context, but the whole speech?

If you have I would kindly ask you to gimme the link cause I couldn't find the full version anywhere, it seems it's all based on a BBC article, itself based on translation of a few quotes... And this translation is totally unclear to me to boot.

 

I'll quote what was supposedly said anyway:

""What is often expressed and signified with the word 'gender' leads to the human auto-emancipation from creation and from the Creator. The human being wants to make himself on his own and to decide always and exclusively by himself about what concerns him."

 

Is that enough to be interpreted as an attack against homosexuality?

I'm not defending the Pope here, seriously I know the kind of stupid things he's said in the past, but what I dislike in this story is the BBC making a fuss and creating a scandal AGAIN without giving their readers the possibility of inform themselves any further. I tend to be careful with articles of this sort, and it really bugs me to see some people disregarding a whole religion because of what someone supposedly said.

/rant over

[mari62]

Just a quick question, I see everyone here reacting BUT has anyone read the pope's speech? I mean, not extracts, not quotes out of context, but the whole speech?

If you have I would kindly ask you to gimme the link cause I couldn't find the full version anywhere, it seems it's all based on a BBC article, itself based on translation of a few quotes... And this translation is totally unclear to me to boot.

 

I'll quote what was supposedly said anyway:

""What is often expressed and signified with the word 'gender' leads to the human auto-emancipation from creation and from the Creator. The human being wants to make himself on his own and to decide always and exclusively by himself about what concerns him."

 

Is that enough to be interpreted as an attack against homosexuality?

I'm not defending the Pope here, seriously I know the kind of stupid things he's said in the past, but what I dislike in this story is the BBC making a fuss and creating a scandal AGAIN without giving their readers the possibility of inform themselves any further. I tend to be careful with articles of this sort, and it really bugs me to see some people disregarding a whole religion because of what someone supposedly said.

/rant over

Totally agree: that's the reason why I haven't commented upon this article so far, I'd like to read the whole speech or better listen to it, but I don't know if I'll have the opportunity to do it. Haven't found it anywhere.

Edited December 25, 2008 by mari62

[babspanky]

Yes, I would like to see and understand the whole piece in context, but I don't know if it was published in full. It appears to be part of an end of year address to senior vatican officails.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7796663.stm

 

However, several seemingly high profile people have been quoted. I wonder if they have seen the full text.

[chickadee]

Just a quick question, I see everyone here reacting BUT has anyone read the pope's speech? I mean, not extracts, not quotes out of context, but the whole speech?

If you have I would kindly ask you to gimme the link cause I couldn't find the full version anywhere, it seems it's all based on a BBC article, itself based on translation of a few quotes... And this translation is totally unclear to me to boot.

 

I'll quote what was supposedly said anyway:

""What is often expressed and signified with the word 'gender' leads to the human auto-emancipation from creation and from the Creator. The human being wants to make himself on his own and to decide always and exclusively by himself about what concerns him."

 

Is that enough to be interpreted as an attack against homosexuality?

I'm not defending the Pope here, seriously I know the kind of stupid things he's said in the past, but what I dislike in this story is the BBC making a fuss and creating a scandal AGAIN without giving their readers the possibility of inform themselves any further. I tend to be careful with articles of this sort, and it really bugs me to see some people disregarding a whole religion because of what someone supposedly said.

/rant over

 

Good point Niki and something I didn't think about till later until I saw a bit more of his speech commented on on an internet news site.

:doh:When will I learn not to jump to conclusions?

[Kissable]

That's why i don't go to church.

I'm catholic and I went to my closest church a long time ago and they closed the door with us inside to get our brains washed or something like that.

 

And about the Pope, i'm spechless, how he can say that? Disrespectful to me

[sparkly1]

Just wondering if the emphasis is on BOTH genders equally since a lot of people (well heterosexual men that is), seem to be able to hyporcytically accept gay or bisexual women far easier than they can when it's men.

[musicfreak]

the thing is homosexuality has been around for hundreds of years...it's not something new and why have people started becoming prejudiced now?I respect the pope because he is my religious leader, I just don't think people should assume all Catholics think like Pope Benidict XVI...i'm not saying people on here are talking like that, but he doesn't necessarily speak for all of us.

 

 

hope i didn't offend anyone:wink2:

[Roxy♥Mika♥]

This is completely ridiculous!!!!! Gays are people! Just like straight ones! I hate discrimination! And the Pope saying that? What happened to :were all equal in the eyes of God???! Huh???! Ridiculous! Outrageous!

[guylainem123]

although i didn't read the full speach from the pope, somehow i'm not totally surprised. i was raised catholic and i went to a private school (a convent, with nuns). i have always struggled with what was taught in church/school. i do not agree with lots of things, mostly their views such as birth control, homosexuality, the fact that priests can not be women and that they can't marry, have a partner or a family. for these reasons, i never was a devote catholic, much to the dismay of my parents.

 

being a good person should be what it should be all about.

it's the best religion. it's the one i chose.

[Niki27]

Prejudice about homosexuality has been around as long as homosexuality.

 

People standing up against that prejudice is a fairly new thing. The earliest examples I know of, in the states, are in the 1970's, but I've heard rumors of earlier efforts to stand up to that prejudice.

 

The idea that people have every right to stand up against that prejudice has been gaining mainstream acceptance within the last 5-10 years, but there is still a majority of people clinging to their traditional beliefs and values and using them as an excuse to condemn people who are different than they are.

 

Social change is never easy for either side.

 

Homosexuality (bisexuality rather) was actually well tolerated in some ancient civilizations, by the Ancient romans and greeks, if I recall properly.

 

But that being said, I don't get the fuss, seriously. When I read some members here rejecting the Church as a block just on basis of what they may think about homosexuals, I just want to say the following things:

 

1. The Pope isn't the Church. He's the leader of it, fair enough, but he's not The Church. When a state leader messes up or says sthg stupid, do you condemn the whole nation? Do you condemn all the political representants of that nation too? Are all Americans a bunch of conservative religious freaks who sleep with a gun under their pillow and wear Cowboys hats? I don't think so If I wanted to push it further, a head of state is actually elected by the people, when the Pope isn't... so now Catholics have to deal with this man, wether they agree with him or not, and I dare hope many don't share his views on a lot of things.

 

2. The Pope is an old man. Just ask around you, I'm afraid most old people still have a problem with homosexuality, christians or not. It's just how they were brought up, and we won't change their mind so why get upset? Things will change, but slowly indeed... But turning one's back to the Church won't help cause if all moderate christians do that, only the radical ones will remain.

Things have already changed a lot in the last years, and I think the Catholic church is now more tolerant towards homosexuality than many other religions or political currents.

 

3. Again, we haven't read the whole speech, so why condemn sthg we know nothing of? As far as I'm concerned, when I read "gender" and "there are men, and there are women", I could as well interpret it as an attack against womens rights and equity between genders... But do women stand up? Nooo, why?

 

Anyway my point here is (especially to the younglings): don't condemn something as a block just because of what you've read or have been told, do not condemn sthg as a whole before knowing all the details of a story, because if you do that, you act just like the Pope who condemns homosexuality without having a single clue what he's talking about.

[nico_collard]

You know what, whenever I see that you're the one posting (I only look at the name not the picture) the pic of the white horse has etched itself into my head so now I see a mental image of that horse talking to me, saying YOUR words!

LOL you're a talking horse

 

*gigglesnort* Mr Ed...

 

 

Sorry.. I'll be serious now!

 

But the reality is that transitions are never easy and the world never stops making them. The Christian church, which includes Catholics, has been torn apart by issues that people thought were so clear in the Bible: slavery, women's issues, divorce, how to behave towards people who believe differently, scientific discovery, etc.

 

Some people are still fighting about whether the church should keep embracing modern ideas about things that most people consider decided and done with. The church is STILL fighting over the Reformation.

 

I agree with all of it, but just wanted to comment on this...

 

That first paragraph reminds me of a video I took of a comedian... I agree with a lot of stuff... especially from about 2:30 onwards...

 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=jLQhUS-CCwg

 

And just ignore the stupid jokes about Brocky and Bathurst ...

 

 

I just wanted to add something to the second paragraph... the church is still evolving and forming... it's not something that will change quickly... Look at how far they've come since the Reformation, and it's still not perfect...

 

This is unacceptable and I hope that nobody else in the church agrees with him.

Sorry for the rant; needed to let it out!!

 

It's okay... but you know that someone will agree with it somewhere... unforunately that's what happens...

 

You would expect from someone like the pope that they wouldn't care about homosexuality! He is a big man. He influences the thoughts of millions of people. I'm so glad I'm not catholic. Uuurgh.

You would expect from someone like the pope (Christians are always willing to help other people blablabla, respect other people blabla) that HE wouldn't be like this. Things like this really dissapoint me.

 

I might just point out that he's only human... People make mistakes in what they say... and I doubt even he would say he's perfect...

 

I think people need to focus on the positive things the current pope and previous popes have done... improving relations with Muslims and Jews for example...

 

LOL, in my personal opinion, I believe there is some truth in Religion...but the stuff we're fed (I.e. the Bible) is just...well, corrupt.

 

I think it's more how people interpret what is written in the Bible that may cause problems in regards to what people not involved in the religion think...

 

I don't agree with what the Pope says, but I can see some of why he said it. In the Bible it is considered a sin. His job as pope surely involves reminding people of the values of "the church" (and I say that in inverted commas cos it's not the values of MY church necessarily) and one of them is that the church believes in the Bible and in the Bible homosexuality is considered a sin.

 

Neither do I, and he represents my religion!

 

There are things that the church considers a sin and I disagree with it... homosexuality being a sin is one... and so is birth control... I honestly don't see how either hurts anyone else...

 

I also think that the world is changing so much, and that the church needs to look at ways to keep people in the religion and how to invite more people in... Look at Vatican II... In my opinion it opened up the understanding of the Mass to the masses, as they went from facing the crucifix and speaking in Latin to facing the crowd and speaking in the local language...

 

Just a quick question, I see everyone here reacting BUT has anyone read the pope's speech? I mean, not extracts, not quotes out of context, but the whole speech?

If you have I would kindly ask you to gimme the link cause I couldn't find the full version anywhere, it seems it's all based on a BBC article, itself based on translation of a few quotes... And this translation is totally unclear to me to boot.

 

I'll quote what was supposedly said anyway:

""What is often expressed and signified with the word 'gender' leads to the human auto-emancipation from creation and from the Creator. The human being wants to make himself on his own and to decide always and exclusively by himself about what concerns him."

 

Is that enough to be interpreted as an attack against homosexuality?

I'm not defending the Pope here, seriously I know the kind of stupid things he's said in the past, but what I dislike in this story is the BBC making a fuss and creating a scandal AGAIN without giving their readers the possibility of inform themselves any further. I tend to be careful with articles of this sort, and it really bugs me to see some people disregarding a whole religion because of what someone supposedly said.

/rant over

 

Can i just say I totally agree with you (and I love you? )

 

What was supposedly said doesn't sound like he said anything directly about homosexuality... All I see is gender...

 

And if there is a link to the full speech, I'd like to read it too..

 

When will I learn not to jump to conclusions?

 

You brought up some valid points though CD...

 

I respect the pope because he is my religious leader, I just don't think people should assume all Catholics think like Pope Benidict XVI...i'm not saying people on here are talking like that, but he doesn't necessarily speak for all of us.

 

Exactly right... I remember us having a discussion about homosexuality in the Religion thread... seems everyone involved in the convo disagreed with what Benedict apparently said...

 

But that being said, I don't get the fuss, seriously. When I read some members here rejecting the Church as a block just on basis of what they may think about homosexuals, I just want to say the following things:

 

1. The Pope isn't the Church. He's the leader of it, fair enough, but he's not The Church. When a state leader messes up or says sthg stupid, do you condemn the whole nation? Do you condemn all the political representants of that nation too? Are all Americans a bunch of conservative religious freaks who sleep with a gun under their pillow and wear Cowboys hats? I don't think so If I wanted to push it further, a head of state is actually elected by the people, when the Pope isn't... so now Catholics have to deal with this man, wether they agree with him or not, and I dare hope many don't share his views on a lot of things.

 

2. The Pope is an old man. Just ask around you, I'm afraid most old people still have a problem with homosexuality, christians or not. It's just how they were brought up, and we won't change their mind so why get upset? Things will change, but slowly indeed... But turning one's back to the Church won't help cause if all moderate christians do that, only the radical ones will remain.

Things have already changed a lot in the last years, and I think the Catholic church is now more tolerant towards homosexuality than many other religions or political currents.

 

3. Again, we haven't read the whole speech, so why condemn sthg we know nothing of? As far as I'm concerned, when I read "gender" and "there are men, and there are women", I could as well interpret it as an attack against womens rights and equity between genders... But do women stand up? Nooo, why?

 

Anyway my point here is (especially to the younglings): don't condemn something as a block just because of what you've read or have been told, do not condemn sthg as a whole before knowing all the details of a story, because if you do that, you act just like the Pope who condemns homosexuality without having a single clue what he's talking about.

 

Again Niki... I love you! And agree with everything, especially the old man thing... a lot of older people have an issue with homosexuality and htta's the way they were raised...

 

I know I didn't really add much to the discussion, but I just wanted to say I agree with what some people have said... and that comes from a practicing Catholic... Just don't condemn us all for what an old man representing us says

[AnnaMariaPetra]

see, this is EXACTLY why i'm not catholic. no offence intended, but when the pope says things like that then he scares so many people away; i personally think that we should be aware are share our faith but not command people what to do.

i think we should let what be, be and let god sort it out on judgement day

 

I didn't read the whole thread and I didn't hear the pope say this, but I will say this: "The pope is just one Catholic, there are many more others! The majority of them will be very sensible. I am not religious, was born and raised Roman Catholic, but I care to think that religion hasn't brought a lot of good in the world. Better be a good human being and live respectful towards others and the whole world!

 

Hope you get my meaning."

 

[nico_collard]

That's exactly right... religion does do good things in the community... and he is only one catholic...

[Naectegale]

I heared about this before I went away for Christmas, and it upset me a great deal. With all the world's problems - over-population, famine, disease, environment, human rights etc. why did the Pope have to pick on Gays? Why are all the major christian religions as well as Islam so obsessed with sex? Haven't they got anything better to think about?

 

I am a confirmed atheist - I have never had one ounce of belief in any religion. In spite of this, I sing at a Catholic church most Sundays - have done for nearly 20 years. I do it because I love the music, and have some good friends - both Catholic and non-Catholic - in the choir.

 

When I heared this from the Pope I had a crisis of conscience - was I, by singing in church and contributing to the service, in some way condoning this kind of bigotry? Should I not sing at church any more? It took me ages to calm down enough to see that me giving up the choir and upsetting my friends wouldn't affect the bigger picture one iota. My Catholic friends are not this biggotted (although some of my Catholic acquaintances are )

 

I will continue to sing in the choir - I enjoy it and no Pope is going to drive me out

 

I am heartened to find that not all religious leaders are so misguided - here is a link to an article where Desmond Tutu speaks sense on the issue

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7602498.stm

[melaniejazmin]

in a survey made to protestant and catholic people, 81% are against the homosexuality and they consider it a sin. there are too many religions that cant tolerate it.

[Moonlightchild]

The Pope said this!

I find this unbelievable and bizarre!

What happened to Christian charity and goodwill to all men?

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7797269.stm

 

Speaking on Monday, Pope Benedict said that saving humanity from homosexual or transsexual behaviour was as important as protecting the environment.

 

I don't want to upset any devout people, but, well I am speechless.

I am surprised no one has commented on this already!

 

I know I saw that on the news!!!

But wasn't choked.

The catholic church is so hypocrite.

It's no ones fault if you are homosexuale,it's not something you choose.

Don't they know that by now!!!!

[Niki27]

in a survey made to protestant and catholic people, 81% are against the homosexuality and they consider it a sin. there are too many religions that cant tolerate it.

 

What survey? A survey led after mass in some removed village where most "catholics" who attend ceremonies are over 70 years old?

What about the general population? Was there any survey led among unreligious people? I work in a non catholic place and you'd be appalled to hear what some people there (who are actually rejecting the church) think of homosexuality.

Anyway remember that figures, just like words, can be twisted to mean anything you want.

 

I know I saw that on the news!!!

But wasn't choked.

The catholic church is so hypocrite.

It's no ones fault if you are homosexuale,it's not something you choose.

Don't they know that by now!!!!

 

You're condemning a whole institution just on basis of what ONE person SUPPOSEDLY said...

[tauruslady]

I was shocked when I heard this...to think that in this day and age The Pope can get away with saying things like that is unbelieveable.

 

I've lost touch with church about a year ago, up until that point I went every Sunday because it was just expected in my family. I still go every now and again, but instead of coming back feeling happy and fulfilled I feel even more disheartened with religon.

My parents now completely see my point of view after much talking about how I felt about the church. They now see what I see, it's not God or the Catholic religon in general saying this, it's one man.

I see the church as very corrupt and it ruins religon for me, things like this don't help. There are too many religons and beliefs out there for anyone to be better or more holy than the others. It really gets to me that the Catholic Church has to be so close minded and corrupt. I am Catholic but I can't help but feel this way.

 

I just hope that someday people can have their own minds and see whats right in front of them. If we don't question why he says things like this, he can get away with it.

 

Sorry for how drawn out that was...it just really annoys me.

Why do people have to be so narrow minded??

[Axie Dentelle]

I'm glad I'm not catholic!

It's shocking

*goes and saves the world from the Pope*

[nico_collard]

in a survey made to protestant and catholic people, 81% are against the homosexuality and they consider it a sin. there are too many religions that cant tolerate it.

 

It really depends on the kind of people you ask... and surveys are somewhat unreliable... for all we know, it could've been a large percentage of old people with a few younger people...

 

What survey? A survey led after mass in some removed village where most "catholics" who attend ceremonies are over 70 years old?

What about the general population? Was there any survey led among unreligious people? I work in a non catholic place and you'd be appalled to hear what some people there (who are actually rejecting the church) think of homosexuality.

Anyway remember that figures, just like words, can be twisted to mean anything you want.

 

 

 

You're condemning a whole institution just on basis of what ONE person SUPPOSEDLY said...

 

If you asked people in Orange (where I live) what they think of homosexuality, you'd probably get a similar response... probably not as large, but I would guess at least half would have an issue with it...

 

 

 

I'm feeling a bit like that... maybe as a practicing Catholic I should keep out, but I feel like people are making a generalisation about the religion because of what the pope said... we're not all like that... even in the Christians thread we talked about it and the people in the conversation didn't agree with the church's stance on homosexuality...