melaniejazmin Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 (edited) sorry, sounds like i agree with it, but i dont. i read the survey when i was looking for what my religion thought about homosexuality, cos i dont know anything about it, i dont practise the religion... and of course, it depends on the kind of people. nobody asked to the general population... Edited December 28, 2008 by melaniejazmin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlightchild Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 (edited) You're condemning a whole institution just on basis of what ONE person SUPPOSEDLY said... Don't get me started on this. Do you know history. And the pope is the nr. one person of the R. catholic Church,he's the boss of that institution and what he says is the law for the whole church "empire". I'm sorry but i hate the R catholic church and almost everything they did so-called in the name of Jesus. Edited December 28, 2008 by Moonlightchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlightchild Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 (edited) I'm feeling a bit like that... maybe as a practicing Catholic I should keep out, but I feel like people are making a generalisation about the religion because of what the pope said... we're not all like that... even in the Christians thread we talked about it and the people in the conversation didn't agree with the church's stance on homosexuality... I'm not saying that all the catholics are like that,I'm saying the church is. I hate the church but not the people who are catholic. It depents on how far they go in to it. My family is catholic,I grew up with it. But I have a mind of my own and that don't fit in to what the church says and have said in the past. And don't forget.... .... Matthiew chapter 6 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Edited December 28, 2008 by Moonlightchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_collard Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Don't get me started on this.Do you know history. And the pope is the nr. one person of the R. catholic Church,he's the boss of that institution and what he says is the law for the whole church "empire". I'm sorry but i hate the R catholic church and almost everything they did so-called in the name of Jesus. I'm not saying that all the catholics are like that,I'm saying the church is.I hate the church but not the people who are catholic. It depents on how far they go in to it. My family is catholic,I grew up with it. But I have a mind of my own and that don't fit in to what the church says and have said in the past. And don't forget.... .... Matthiew chapter 6 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Just keep in mind that the way you speak about the Church might make those of us who are practicing catholics feel a wee bit insulted... And what exactly do you mean by the bold part? I might be taking it the wrong way but I wanted you to explain it to me (maybe my brain is a bit slow).... Even I don't agree with what the Pope says, but I think that what the Pope says and what the every day Catholics believe are very different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_collard Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 sorry, sounds like i agree with it, but i dont. i read the survey when i was looking for what my religion thought about homosexuality, cos i dont know anything about it, i dont practise the religion... and of course, it depends on the kind of people. nobody asked to the general population... I didn't think the general population were asked... though I suspect that the Catholics who believe and agree with everything that the Church says were talked to, and they didn't talk to the everyday Catholics (who don't agree with everything the Church say)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlightchild Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Just keep in mind that the way you speak about the Church might make those of us who are practicing catholics feel a wee bit insulted... And what exactly do you mean by the bold part? I might be taking it the wrong way but I wanted you to explain it to me (maybe my brain is a bit slow).... Even I don't agree with what the Pope says, but I think that what the Pope says and what the every day Catholics believe are very different... I didn't meant to insult anyone on here. If I did I'm sorry for that. I've been studying History and cultures and believes. And all the things I learned about RC church makes me sad and angry. What I said before was just an reaction on what Nikki said that I'm just condemning a whole institution just on basis of what one person said... That isn't the case,it is because of so many things that I think about it like that. On the bold part I meant; People who are fanatic about it and think only catholics are good people and who are prejudging everyone who has an other believe or lives there lives in an other way the church describes. I find that so wrong because it's everything that Jesus said not to do. People who think you are like possessed by the devil if you're gay or that you are evil if you live and sleep with someone you didn't marry. You know;real fanatic people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki27 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I didn't meant to insult anyone on here. If I did I'm sorry for that.I've been studying History and cultures and believes. And all the things I learned about RC church makes me sad and angry. What I said before was just an reaction on what Nikki said that I'm just condemning a whole institution just on basis of what one person said... That isn't the case,it is because of so many things that I think about it like that. On the bold part I meant; People who are fanatic about it and think only catholics are good people and who are prejudging everyone who has an other believe or lives there lives in an other way the church describes. I find that so wrong because it's everything that Jesus said not to do. People who think you are like possessed by the devil if you're gay or that you are evil if you live and sleep with someone you didn't marry. You know;real fanatic people I don't wanna start a fight but you are prejudging here. History you say? Every single religion's history includes shameful events. Same is true for every nation's and every individual's. The Church also is responsible for great things and major progress on social level, like days off on sundays (maybe you take it as granted, but it wasn't like this 200 years ago). For a long time, the Catholic Church was also the only social and financial support to the poor and the weak etc etc. I don't agree with a lot of things the Catholic Church thinks and does but again, you cannot condemn it as a block. What is the next step? Saying all muslims are terrorists or whatever? Same process. Reading things like "I hate that Church" is no act of tolerance imo. The Pope is the "boss" so what? I've said it before, it's not because your Prime Minister, you parents, your boss, your teachers say sthg stupid you need to agree with them, do you? If you want to condemn the Pope, DO IT, and I'll join you doing so actually, but when condemning the whole institution, you condemn every single catholic person, and that's when it becomes offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_collard Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I didn't meant to insult anyone on here. If I did I'm sorry for that.I've been studying History and cultures and believes. And all the things I learned about RC church makes me sad and angry. What I said before was just an reaction on what Nikki said that I'm just condemning a whole institution just on basis of what one person said... That isn't the case,it is because of so many things that I think about it like that. On the bold part I meant; People who are fanatic about it and think only catholics are good people and who are prejudging everyone who has an other believe or lives there lives in an other way the church describes. I find that so wrong because it's everything that Jesus said not to do. People who think you are like possessed by the devil if you're gay or that you are evil if you live and sleep with someone you didn't marry. You know;real fanatic people Oh, okay thanks! I've done a bit of study on it too (I did study on it so I could teach Religion), and each religion has some dark times... It happens unfortunately (look at how they sold indulgences 500 or so years ago... we've moved on since then)... All we can do is try to encourage change... And besides, Catholics are far from perfect... most would say they don't get it right all the time, but admit when they've done wrong and try to fix it... though those Anglicans think they're the only ones getting to heaven And if you missed it... I was joking... I have no issues with Anglicans in the slightest... I don't wanna start a fight but you are prejudging here.History you say? Every single religion's history includes shameful events. Same is true for every nation's and every individual's. The Church also is responsible for great things and major progress on social level, like days off on sundays (maybe you take it as granted, but it wasn't like this 200 years ago). For a long time, the Catholic Church was also the only social and financial support to the poor and the weak etc etc. I don't agree with a lot of things the Catholic Church thinks and does but again, you cannot condemn it as a block. What is the next step? Saying all muslims are terrorists or whatever? Same process. Reading things like "I hate that Church" is no act of tolerance imo. The Pope is the "boss" so what? I've said it before, it's not because your Prime Minister, you parents, your boss, your teachers say sthg stupid you need to agree with them, do you? If you want to condemn the Pope, DO IT, and I'll join you doing so actually, but when condemning the whole institution, you condemn every single catholic person, and that's when it becomes offensive. I agree with the bit where you say about the social and financial support part... Catholic schools were started in Australia in the 19th century for poor children by nuns so they could get an education.. It's a shame that something that has been said by the Pope can turn people against Catholicism... Even the Cardinal in Australia said something quite unpleasant (I believe it had to do with gay people and illegitimate children) but I ignored it... Especially since I was told by a Brother that he was quite unpopular and was a bit of a twat (), but I choose not to listen to it... Though I think the further up the hierarchy you get, the more removed from reality they get ... Most priests seem pretty level headed and understanding (Hey, one priest was talking books with my sister during confession!) As far as I'm concerned, the only message I really should take into consideration is Jesus'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlightchild Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 (edited) Oh, okay thanks! I've done a bit of study on it too (I did study on it so I could teach Religion), and each religion has some dark times... It happens unfortunately (look at how they sold indulgences 500 or so years ago... we've moved on since then)... All we can do is try to encourage change... And besides, Catholics are far from perfect... most would say they don't get it right all the time, but admit when they've done wrong and try to fix it... though those Anglicans think they're the only ones getting to heaven And if you missed it... I was joking... I have no issues with Anglicans in the slightest... I agree with the bit where you say about the social and financial support part... Catholic schools were started in Australia in the 19th century for poor children by nuns so they could get an education.. It's a shame that something that has been said by the Pope can turn people against Catholicism... Even the Cardinal in Australia said something quite unpleasant (I believe it had to do with gay people and illegitimate children) but I ignored it... Especially since I was told by a Brother that he was quite unpopular and was a bit of a twat (), but I choose not to listen to it... Though I think the further up the hierarchy you get, the more removed from reality they get ... Most priests seem pretty level headed and understanding (Hey, one priest was talking books with my sister during confession!) As far as I'm concerned, the only message I really should take into consideration is Jesus'... Ok,I'm glad that's been cleared up, that you know I really didn't meant to hurt or insult you or the catholics on here. It's just my point of view on this topic and not on the people who are catholic. Next time I'll think twice before I say something,I just totally didn't see it coming that people here on MFC would feel attack by my post. Again..Sorry And for Niki... 1- I didn't say anything wrong to or about you. I didn't insult you for your opinion, so, why did you do that to me? 2- I disagree on the things you said,we could have a big discussion on it but I don't see a reason for it, its your opinion and i have mine. It's your right to love the church, just like it's my right to dislike it. I will never change my view on it and that's probably the same for you. I don't see a problem on that. That's all and the last I'll say about this to you. Edited December 28, 2008 by Moonlightchild Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_collard Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Just a quick point... Niki doesn't exactly have a love of the Church... Just thought I'd point it out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlightchild Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Just a quick point... Niki doesn't exactly have a love of the Church... Just thought I'd point it out... Oh,I just thought she had because she got on it so strongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tantastic Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 YESSSSS HALLELUJAH that's EXACTLY what the world needs right now.. more hatred and intolerance. *rubs her hands together* wohoooooo god I'm happpppy ok rant over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avoca Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 some historian said "in the name of god" is one of the best alibi in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki27 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 1- I didn't say anything wrong to or about you. I didn't insult you for your opinion, so, why did you do that to me? 2- I disagree on the things you said,we could have a big discussion on it but I don't see a reason for it, its your opinion and i have mine. It's your right to love the church, just like it's my right to dislike it. I will never change my view on it and that's probably the same for you. I don't see a problem on that. You obviously got me wrong: I do not like the Church lol. I never did, I don't go to mass, I'm not religious, and I disagree with a lot of things inside the Church but I have respect and tolerance for all institutions even when I think they ain't perfect because rejection based on beliefs is something too dangerous. Besides I don't think I said anything insulting, I just told you not to judge too fast... Just a quick point... Niki doesn't exactly have a love of the Church... Just thought I'd point it out... Thanks Oh,I just thought she had because she got on it so strongly. That's me, I like to play the devil's advocate. I would have reacted the exact same if you had said you disliked judaism, or protestantism, or the muslim religion. Mind you, it's perfectly your right to reject the ideas of a religion, whatever it is, I just think that HATE and DISLIKE are dangerous words which could be misinterpreted and offensive. some historian said "in the name of god" is one of the best alibi in history. And Marx said religion was the opium of the people I do agree with both quotes to some extent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 (edited) Just noticed this thread, and I suppose being Catholic, I should be here defending the Pope and getting behind what he said, and condemning everyone having a go at him. BUT, I will say, that Pope Benedict, is not everyones favourite choice for Pope. In my opinion, the Cardinal from Africa should have become Pope, he has a more tolerant attitude towards everything, from what I heard at the time of the investiture. Anyway, as far as this speech is concerned, I DON'T agree with it. One of my best friends is gay, and he's one of the most kindest sweetest guys I know, and this is why we're friends. I don't care who he chooses to have a relationship with, that's his business, and I'm certainly not gonna let anyone, even the Pope, tell me who to be friends with! And I don't think it interferes with my faith and beliefs in any way, whatsoever. Edited December 28, 2008 by RAK1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlightchild Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 You obviously got me wrong: I do not like the Church lol. I never did, I don't go to mass, I'm not religious, and I disagree with a lot of things inside the Church but I have respect and tolerance for all institutions even when I think they ain't perfect because rejection based on beliefs is something too dangerous. Besides I don't think I said anything insulting, I just told you not to judge too fast... Thanks That's me, I like to play the devil's advocate. I would have reacted the exact same if you had said you disliked judaism, or protestantism, or the muslim religion. Mind you, it's perfectly your right to reject the ideas of a religion, whatever it is, I just think that HATE and DISLIKE are dangerous words which could be misinterpreted and offensive. And Marx said religion was the opium of the people I do agree with both quotes to some extent Ok,I chould've known that by now,I've seen more posts from you but you scare me sometimes Niki:naughty: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki27 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Ok,I chould've known that by now,I've seen more posts from you but you scare me sometimes Niki:naughty: I scare a lot of people Seriously, I hope you got my point. I am not telling you you're wrong nor that you should fall on your knees and start worshipping the Pope (I stated many times I didn't like him nor what he usually says) but be careful not to generalize and again, we don't know for sure what's been said in this case... Anyway, replying to hate by hate and to intolerance by intolerance (even if we use some words out of anger in the heat of the debate) is never a solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Just noticed this thread, and I suppose being Catholic, I should be here defending the Pope and getting behind what he said, and condemning everyone having a go at him. BUT, I will say, that Pope Benedict, is not everyones favourite choice for Pope. In my opinion, the Cardinal from Africa should have become Pope, he has a more tolerant attitude towards everything, from what I heard at the time of the investiture. Anyway, as far as this speech is concerned, I DON'T agree with it. One of my best friends is gay, and he's one of the most kindest sweetest guys I know, and this is why we're friends. I don't care who he chooses to have a relationship with, that's his business, and I'm certainly not gonna let anyone, even the Pope, tell me who to be friends with! And I don't think it interferes with my faith and beliefs in any way, whatsoever. I have a very Catholic friend who thinks this Pope is the real deal - the interesting thing is that my friend is gay, in a long-term relationship and recently entered into a Civil Partnership I asked him once if he wished the church was more liberal about homosexuality, and he said no, he didn't want it ever to change I asked why, but I honestly didn't understand his answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlightchild Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I scare a lot of people Seriously, I hope you got my point. I am not telling you you're wrong nor that you should fall on your knees and start worshipping the Pope (I stated many times I didn't like him nor what he usually says) but be careful not to generalize and again, we don't know for sure what's been said in this case... Anyway, replying to hate by hate and to intolerance by intolerance (even if we use some words out of anger in the heat of the debate) is never a solution Hell,can't believe I spend so many quotes in a thread about the pope on a Mika forum. I thought to leave it just by one. but like I said before,I'm sorry. I'm sorry for the hate word and if people felt insulted by it,That was not my intention. I'm not sorry for what I meant in my first post(I still think of it like that but I'm sorry for the way it came across) (I hope you understand what I mean,I have the feeling my English is failing me a bit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I have a very Catholic friend who thinks this Pope is the real deal - the interesting thing is that my friend is gay, in a long-term relationship and recently entered into a Civil Partnership I asked him once if he wished the church was more liberal about homosexuality, and he said no, he didn't want it ever to change I asked why, but I honestly didn't understand his answer. I'm not such a big fan of this Pope, I think it's to do with his association with the Hitler youth back in WW2, after we had a more undestanding Pope previously, as he had been on the other side of the fence with the Polish resistance. Jean Pauls recommendations towards the end of his life had a lot to do with Benedict, who was his right hand man and confidente, so when he became Pope we kind of saw which way the Church would go. I just don't feel comfortable with this Pope, it feels like we could be going back to the dark ages, with no room for manouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickadee Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 though those Anglicans think they're the only ones getting to heaven And if you missed it... I was joking... I have no issues with Anglicans in the slightest... Hahahaha... I've always heard it was the Catholics who thought they were the only ones getting into heaven. In the joke. You know the one. Where this person gets to heaven and is being shown around heaven and they come to a wall and he asks St Peter "What's with the wall?" and St Peter says "Shhhh! Keep it down! The Catholics are on the other side and they think they're the only one's here!" I always thought that was very funny cos you could put any particular denomination in instead of Catholic, it's just that's the way I heard it first:naughty: And I really hope that doesn't offend anyone:wub2: since I have no intention of insulting Catholics. By all means, feel free to put my church in there, I won't be offended! Salvation Army btw. some historian said "in the name of god" is one of the best alibi in history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 I'm not such a big fan of this Pope, I think it's to do with his association with the Hitler youth back in WW2, after we had a more undestanding Pope previously, as he had been on the other side of the fence with the Polish resistance. Jean Pauls recommendations towards the end of his life had a lot to do with Benedict, who was his right hand man and confidente, so when he became Pope we kind of saw which way the Church would go.I just don't feel comfortable with this Pope, it feels like we could be going back to the dark ages, with no room for manouver. That association was the first thing I thought of, when I heard this news. But I think it was a little unfair, since I don't know all the circumstances. It was a long time ago, he has had time to grow up since then. I share your concern, though. He has a lot of influence with many people, some very important and some just plain biggoted - both of which can use his words as an excuse to create trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted December 28, 2008 Share Posted December 28, 2008 Hahahaha... I've always heard it was the Catholics who thought they were the only ones getting into heaven. In the joke. You know the one. Where this person gets to heaven and is being shown around heaven and they come to a wall and he asks St Peter "What's with the wall?" and St Peter says "Shhhh! Keep it down! The Catholics are on the other side and they think they're the only one's here!" I always thought that was very funny cos you could put any particular denomination in instead of Catholic, it's just that's the way I heard it first:naughty: And I really hope that doesn't offend anyone:wub2: since I have no intention of insulting Catholics. By all means, feel free to put my church in there, I won't be offended! Salvation Army btw. I heard it first about Baptists, then Jews - I think it can be applied to everyone except atheists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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