Queuing for GA gigs - thoughts, feedback, suggestions?

[identicaltwin3]

ingie

if i browse 'mika we are golden' on google, your site comes before the MFC.

well done girl!

 

oh i forgot what i wanted to post...

ah yes

 

guys, keep it calm down here, ok? thanks

 

Don't be such a spoilsport, Robbie, let them have fun ...

 

Cheers,

 

Id3

[Droopsy]

If you don’t have a credit card or cannot be online at the right time, unfairness would be due to luck, personal circumstances, etc. but potentially everyone could have the chance. That’s very different from not having the chance solely because some people are conferred benefits, and others not, according to subjective factors.

 

Anyway, I repeat I think hand numbering is also a good idea.

 

 

Well isn't that the same then? Everyone had the chance to join way back in the beginning right?

 

And by no means am I defending the idea of people getting in etc. based on their join date. But the first buy first in idea is just as unfair imo. I'm gonna shut up now

[LeiRe]

Well isn't that the same then? Everyone had the chance to join way back in the beginning right?

 

Not the same at all, not for me at least. In the first case Mika or Mika Team would be proceeding objectively. In the second, they would be promoting favoritism and consequently discrimination.

[suzie]

Not the same at all, not for me at least. In the first case Mika or Mika Team would be proceeding objectively. In the second, they would be promoting favoritism and consequently discrimination.

 

So how would YOU differenciate if you had to?

On a first come first served basis? That would be favouring ticket touts..

 

True MFC was not official in the beginning but it has always been the biggest fan site and most first users of Mikasounds also migrated here in early 2007...

[Suzy]

It's just as objective to say that when I joined, I had no idea to even think about getting perks.

In actually it's after we became "official" or acknowledged by MIKASounds that people may be joining because of perks.

[sariflor]

 

OK, so my thoughts on the numbered queuing system as experienced

just last week (seems much longer ago already) in NYC...

 

Overall, I think the ONLY way this works is if we have the support

of Mika's team -- whether it's John or some other person representing

Mika -- and the venue security people. Without their involvement, we

are just a bunch of bossy control freaks with a Sharpie.

 

The system worked fairly well for the first 45 or so people

in the queue -- but they were almost all MFC, so it was easy to

convince them to participate.

 

After that, it got a little bit dicey. I volunteered to take the list and

stand at the end of the line, because once it got that long people

who came didn't realize that there even *was* a list or a numbering

system that they needed to ask about. Keeping the list at the front of

the line is not a good idea, IMO or in my experience. Someone needs to

be monitoring (and welcoming) newcomers and getting them to buy into

the idea that the numbering system is a good one.

 

A couple of things made this easy as the day wore on -- 1) pointing out

to people that if they got a number they could leave for a toilet or

snack break and not lose their place in line and 2) Mika's ice cream truck.

Once I told people that all they had to do to get free ice cream was show

the guy the number on their hand, they were sold!

 

For this to work at all in the future, we have to present the idea not

just as an MFC idea, but as a benefit to ALL fans who are waiting. If

we can get John or security to periodically walk down the

line and make it clear that they support this means of organization, I

think it makes a world of difference. It's much more acceptable to

people if they realize it's an official thing -- that time of arrival will

equate to order of entry to the venue. It would have been really helpful

if, for instance, John had come down to where I was standing with #85

or #90 to give his seal of approval. Then it wouldn't have been as

difficult to deal with the folks who were saying, "I'm holding a spot

for my four friends who won't be coming for another hour yet."

 

I don't know how this type of thing will work with the much larger

venues that we're going to see once Mika starts his next tour, because

we're going to have a lot more people attending -- more than just MFC,

I mean. Non-MFCers may not be as receptive to the idea for a variety

of reasons. But if we have the support of Mika's team and the venue,

then we at least have a chance keeping some order, at least among

the earliest queuers.

I'm commenting on the bolded parts (mainly).

Agree that the only way in which the system works is if we have the support from Team Mika, AND not only that, but it's a visible fact to the other queuers that we have this support.

Ie, there has to be some sort of "visible presence" from Team Mika in the queue at some point, and I'm thinking maybe especially towards the last couple of hours before doors open, as this is always where the most rowdy ones start causing issues and "questioning" and challenging the system.

In any case, you're right, we have no chance of it working unless TM are on board AND are making people aware of this fact.

I had to tell many cheeky ones that this was endorsed by Team Mika and the venue, when they were challenging me whilst waiting to go into the room when we were all stuck in the foyer.

It seemed that this was when most of them decided to make a beeline for the door, and kept repeating that they didn't care about our system, because they knew that the venue would not follow it and it was nothing "official".

No matter how many times I told them that this was not the case, they would not listen, and didn't quite accept it until the bouncers started screaming that we would go in by our numbers.

All this could be avoided if a clear message was sent from the venue/TM earlier, letting people know that this is the way we will do it.

About making people aware that this is going to benefit everyone, I think that this works for most "good will" queuers, which hopefully will be the majority of those present.

And your last point, about larger venues: I can see this being a total nightmare. Especially in places where there is more than one entrance opening at the same time.

[Christine]

The very idea of a presale is about favouritism. If there was no favouritism at play the tickets would just go on sale to the general public and not be put aside specifically for the fan club and Mikasounds members.

 

If you think we're going to throw them back in Mika's face and say it is unfair to some other random fans and ticket touts out there somewhere then I think you've come to the wrong place.

 

In the case of NYC we had our presale, Mikasounds had their presale and Le Poisson Rouge had a regular sale. The latter two sales are not our concern and quite frankly our presale is not the concern of every random person out there who happens to like Mika. It is not incumbent upon us to make the terms of our presale fair to them. We are only concerned about our members and our presale.

 

The so-called discrimination had already taken place when MFC was granted a presale so I don't know why we continually argue about this. If Mika didn't want to show favouritism to MFC we wouldn't be shown favouritism.

[sariflor]

If you don’t have a credit card or cannot be online at the right time, unfairness would be due to luck, personal circumstances, etc. but potentially everyone could have the chance.

 

What, you mean everyone except for those not being able to be online at the time, or with a credit card, or without a computer, etc....

 

You also mention luck as an opposing argument to the "filtered by join date/activity" system which you call subjective. How objective is "luck" exactly?

 

There is never going to be a system that benefits EVERYONE. It can only be made fair for most.

 

 

That’s very different from not having the chance solely because some people are conferred benefits, and others not, according to subjective factors.

 

How subjective is a joining date cutoff exactly? Isn't that a cold, hard, objective fact?

 

 

Thank you I already knew that. What I was curious about was if there was a concrete date, so that members could be considered members of an official fanclub (not of a mere forum) from that moment on.

 

If you go by the letter of the book, Mika doesn't have a "proper" fanclub to date, and won't be having one in the foreseable future. This is the closest he has. If MFC operated like most artists' fanclubs, we would all be paying an annual fee and getting perks based on join date.

Go have a look at the U2 fanclub for an example. That's how it works a lot of the time.

 

 

It's just as objective to say that when I joined, I had no idea to even think about getting perks.

In actually it's after we became "official" or acknowledged by MIKASounds that people may be joining because of perks.

 

Very well said, Suzy.

[LeiRe]

So how would YOU differenciate if you had to?

On a first come first served basis? That would be favouring ticket touts..

 

True MFC was not official in the beginning but it has always been the biggest fan site and most first users of Mikasounds also migrated here in early 2007...

 

I couldn’t tell… I guess I think presales for MFCers, for every single MFCer irrelevant their join date, would be desirable. As someone already pointed, there are not 4 hundred MFCers attending gigs usually, so distinctions based on join date may not be necessary. Not to say that not even presales of any kind would be of any use when the gigs are taking place in large GA venues. Then the numbering system is the key…

 

With “first come first served basis” at least you guarantee (except for ticket touts – I don’t even know what that means but I think I get it) that people who pay attention are there, even if they registered yesterday, whereas someone who registered in Jan 2007, but doesn’t care anymore would miss it.

 

Join date is a subjective factor.

 

It's just as objective to say that when I joined, I had no idea to even think about getting perks.

In actually it's after we became "official" or acknowledged by MIKASounds that people may be joining because of perks.

 

That's it. Pure luck. Thank you.

[RAK1]

It's just as objective to say that when I joined, I had no idea to even think about getting perks.

In actually it's after we became "official" or acknowledged by MIKASounds that people may be joining because of perks.

 

Indeed!

When I joined, it was to find out more about Mika, and to talk to people about his music. I never dreamt about getting perks for shows or anything else!

It was only after becoming official, that perks even got brought up. I don't think anyone could have dreamed that at the beginning of 07.

[Christine]

Indeed!

When I joined, it was to find out more about Mika, and to talk to people about his music. I never dreamt about getting perks for shows or anything else!

 

Yeah I was just here to stir up sh*t.

[LeiRe]

The so-called discrimination had already taken place when MFC was granted a presale so I don't know why we continually argue about this. If Mika didn't want to show favouritism to MFC we wouldn't be shown favouritism.

 

I'm talking about distinctions inside MFC based on join date.

 

I think my point of view is clear enough, for those who want to understand it. I'm tired. Good evening everyone!

 

Or should I say good night?

Edited June 29, 2009 by LeiRe

[Laurel]

Glad to see this thread is (mostly) back on topic... I had to read

through a dozen or so pages last night of arguments that were not

relevant to the topic at hand.

 

Which is queuing --not who is a better fan.

 

OK, so my thoughts on the numbered queuing system as experienced

just last week (seems much longer ago already) in NYC...

 

Overall, I think the ONLY way this works is if we have the support

of Mika's team -- whether it's John or some other person representing

Mika -- and the venue security people. Without their involvement, we

are just a bunch of bossy control freaks with a Sharpie.

 

The system worked fairly well for the first 45 or so people

in the queue -- but they were almost all MFC, so it was easy to

convince them to participate.

 

After that, it got a little bit dicey. I volunteered to take the list and

stand at the end of the line, because once it got that long people

who came didn't realize that there even *was* a list or a numbering

system that they needed to ask about. Keeping the list at the front of

the line is not a good idea, IMO or in my experience. Someone needs to

be monitoring (and welcoming) newcomers and getting them to buy into

the idea that the numbering system is a good one.

 

A couple of things made this easy as the day wore on -- 1) pointing out

to people that if they got a number they could leave for a toilet or

snack break and not lose their place in line and 2) Mika's ice cream truck.

Once I told people that all they had to do to get free ice cream was show

the guy the number on their hand, they were sold!

 

For this to work at all in the future, we have to present the idea not

just as an MFC idea, but as a benefit to ALL fans who are waiting. If

we can get John or security to periodically walk down the

line and make it clear that they support this means of organization, I

think it makes a world of difference. It's much more acceptable to

people if they realize it's an official thing -- that time of arrival will

equate to order of entry to the venue. It would have been really helpful

if, for instance, John had come down to where I was standing with #85

or #90 to give his seal of approval. Then it wouldn't have been as

difficult to deal with the folks who were saying, "I'm holding a spot

for my four friends who won't be coming for another hour yet."

 

I don't know how this type of thing will work with the much larger

venues that we're going to see once Mika starts his next tour, because

we're going to have a lot more people attending -- more than just MFC,

I mean. Non-MFCers may not be as receptive to the idea for a variety

of reasons. But if we have the support of Mika's team and the venue,

then we at least have a chance keeping some order, at least among

the earliest queuers.

 

Could I just say this is the one aspect of queueing that I absolutely hate ... with a vengence ... I've lost count of the number of times I've been - say - 2/3rd in the queue for a gig .... not spoken much to the girl/s in front of me ... and with about half an hour to doors opening up suddenly pop 4 - 10 friends of theirs and I'm suddenly 15th in the queue ... who proceed to ignore my complaints that there is an end of the queue somewhere and they should be flipping joining it .... if you can't wait all day - tough .... even happened when I went to Franz in March - but thanfully the four of them arrived with 10 mins to doors opening *WTF* but had to leave the queue to go and get their tickets from box-office

 

Completely annoys the hell out of me

[sariflor]

I think that something to be taken into account here is why Mika decided to make this his official Fanclub. He saw the community that had grown by its own accord, he liked it, he felt close to it, he appreciated the support that he received from it at those crucial first months/years of his career, and he wanted to reward it.

He did this by buying the site and working with its administators in order to join efforts, so that things in Mikaland could be bettered for every fan out there, and this is the reality of it. He liked the fanclub based on what people had built it to be then. It's really not that far fetched to think that it's unreasonable that, should there be a system in place at some point (and this is still all pure speculation), the longer time active "founding" members would have an advantage?

They made it what it is to a large degree. They made it what Mika liked at the time when he decided to institute it his official FC. I think that this is as realistic as it gets.

Let's think for a second about who turns up for the gigs. At most Mika gigs that I have been to (and it's in the double figures now ), 99% of the people who turn up early enough to secure a front row spot are MFC'ers.

And I don't mean any MFC'er: Normally they are "old time" MFC'ers. Only a handful of non-MFC members go to the gigs early enough to get to the front (by valid means anyway) so what does that tell you?

The hardcores are mostly here, and have been for a long time. Surely this is a bit of a sign about who is dedicated?

So, working on that example, why would anyone who just walks off the street and has had no input whatsoever in this community, or put any effort in getting good spots at these gigs, and signs up here at the last minute just to see if they get something, get the same treatment? It makes no sense.

[Christine]

I'm talking about distinctions inside MFC based on join date.

 

There hasn't been any distinction made within MFC. The presales have been open to all.

[LeiRe]

What, you mean everyone except for those not being able to be online at the time, or with a credit card, or without a computer, etc....

 

You also mention luck as an opposing argument to the "filtered by join date/activity" system which you call subjective. How objective is "luck" exactly?

 

I really think you know very very well what I mean, so I'm not going to keep repeating all over again.

 

As you perfectly understand Spanish, I'll say this:

 

Me parece que algunas de vosotras sois expertas en darle la vuelta a la tostada y marear la perdiz. Creo que se me ha entendido perfectamente, así que no voy a seguir diseccionando detalles, y menos cuando son tergiversados a posta.

[LeiRe]

There hasn't been any distinction made within MFC. The presales have been open to all.

 

But it was suggested as a possibility in the future. I was replying to that comment.

[kath]

no, but he sent champagne.

 

Yes, he did indeed. Naughty ungrateful Kath:blush-anim-cl:

 

Hope that's not repeated at Bestival this year!!!

I'm back here to bang on about WHY there is STILL this insane need to queue from stupid o' clock?

Queueing from 12/1 o' clock in the afternoon is plenty of time to : 1.Have time to get a good spot. 2.Have plenty of bonding time with everyone in the queue. 3.Avoid tensions running high by the times the doors open, as everyone will have had plenty of rest. 4.Have everyone being relatively fresh before the gig starts.

Would it be SO hard to do this really?

 

I totally agree. But as has been pointed out, even if WE agreed (and lets face it...getting the MFC to agree on ANYTHING is probably very unlikely:naughty:) it wouldn't stop others from queuing before our appointed time. But again, as has also been pointed out...it is probably unlikely that many people other than MFC would want to queue that early anyway.

 

I feel this thread is going around in circles.............but, what's new?

[guylainem123]

Yes, he did indeed. Naughty ungrateful Kath:blush-anim-cl:

 

it's alright just send me bacardi and you'll be forgiven

[IngievV]

ingie

if i browse 'mika we are golden' on google, your site comes before the MFC.

well done girl!

 

Yes! That was what I was aiming for woohooo:mf_rosetinted:

[IngievV]

Could I just say this is the one aspect of queueing that I absolutely hate ... with a vengence ... I've lost count of the number of times I've been - say - 2/3rd in the queue for a gig .... not spoken much to the girl/s in front of me ... and with about half an hour to doors opening up suddenly pop 4 - 10 friends of theirs and I'm suddenly 15th in the queue ... who proceed to ignore my complaints that there is an end of the queue somewhere and they should be flipping joining it .... if you can't wait all day - tough .... even happened when I went to Franz in March - but thanfully the four of them arrived with 10 mins to doors opening *WTF* but had to leave the queue to go and get their tickets from box-office

 

Completely annoys the hell out of me

 

 

I agree with that:naughty:

[kath]

it's alright just send me bacardi and you'll be forgiven

 

You cheap woman you:naughty:

[sariflor]

I'm commenting on the bolded parts (mainly).

 

Agree that the only way in which the system works is if we have the support from Team Mika, AND not only that, but it's a visible fact to the other queuers that we have this support.

Ie, there has to be some sort of "visible presence" from Team Mika in the queue at some point, and I'm thinking maybe especially towards the last couple of hours before doors open, as this is always where the most rowdy ones start causing issues and "questioning" and challenging the system.

In any case, you're right, we have no chance of it working unless TM are on board AND are making people aware of this fact.

 

I had to tell many cheeky ones that this was endorsed by Team Mika and the venue, when they were challenging me whilst waiting to go into the room when we were all stuck in the foyer.

It seemed that this was when most of them decided to make a beeline for the door, and kept repeating that they didn't care about our system, because they knew that the venue would not follow it and it was nothing "official".

No matter how many times I told them that this was not the case, they would not listen, and didn't quite accept it until the bouncers started screaming that we would go in by our numbers.

All this could be avoided if a clear message was sent from the venue/TM earlier, letting people know that this is the way we will do it.

 

About making people aware that this is going to benefit everyone, I think that this works for most "good will" queuers, which hopefully will be the majority of those present.

 

And your last point, about larger venues: I can see this being a total nightmare. Especially in places where there is more than one entrance opening at the same time.

 

 

 

Just quoting myself as I thought that my post may have gotten lost in between others that I posted at the same time, so if you had already seen it just ignore moi

[Droopsy]

The very idea of a presale is about favouritism. If there was no favouritism at play the tickets would just go on sale to the general public and not be put aside specifically for the fan club and Mikasounds members.

 

Totally true:thumb_yello:

 

What, you mean everyone except for those not being able to be online at the time, or with a credit card, or without a computer, etc....

 

You also mention luck as an opposing argument to the "filtered by join date/activity" system which you call subjective. How objective is "luck" exactly? There is never going to be a system that benefits EVERYONE. It can only be made fair for most.

 

 

Thank you!

 

 

With “first come first served basis” at least you guarantee (except for ticket touts – I don’t even know what that means but I think I get it) that people who pay attention are there, even if they registered yesterday, whereas someone who registered in Jan 2007, but doesn’t care anymore would miss it

 

 

I'm sorry to bring this up again, it's something personal but it really bugs me so I have to react.

 

So mfc'ers, like myself, who were here the entire time the presales were announced, were here at the exact time to buy them etc. but couldn't because they had no credit card e.g., deserve a less good spot in your opinion than let's say someone who had joined the day before purely because they know there was a presale on this site and they'd have good seats? You can't honestly think that's more objective than it being based on join date? It's discrimination as well.

Indeed!

When I joined, it was to find out more about Mika, and to talk to people about his music. I never dreamt about getting perks for shows or anything else!

It was only after becoming official, that perks even got brought up. I don't think anyone could have dreamed that at the beginning of 07.

 

Oh I remember... I remember browsing the internet for 'mika' and couldn't find anything! Friends didn't know him or couldn't care less so there was nobody to talk to about that talented creature. Until I found this forum of course

 

I think that something to be taken into account here is why Mika decided to make this his official Fanclub. ........

 

Great post Sariflor I agree.

[laura*]

[/i]So mfc'ers, like myself, who were here the entire time the presales were announced, were here at the exact time to buy them etc. but couldn't because they had no credit card e.g., deserve a less good spot in your opinion than let's say someone who had joined the day before purely because they know there was a presale on this site and they'd have good seats? You can't honestly think that's more objective than it being based on join date? It's discrimination as well.

[/color][/font]

 

But if we know beforehand that there is going to be a presale here and that you need a credit card to buy the ticket, it will be possible to ask someone who has got a credit card to buy a ticket for you. I'm sure 'old' fans have built a wide network of friendships.

That's what I did with the EP for an Italian MFCer, and I only got to know her a few months ago.